Quality of survey ??

TJM

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This is kind of a rant but here goes.
I just bought a new to me boat, had the survey completed by a SAMS credited surveyor and nothing stuck out in his report as items that needed repairing or items that were not functioning.
A few days after the closing we headed out on our three week delivery cruise eastward.

During the maiden voyage we discovered numerous items that the surveyor did not notice, check or other.......
I guess buyer beware ???
Here is the short list. Is this normal ?
Navigation lights do not work.
Inverter operation was never checked.
4 out of 6 batteries are DEAD.
Dinghy crain was never checked.
Windlass operation was never checked.
Hot water heater was never checked.
Radar unit is non operational.

I live in Ct while the boat was in Michigan so my available time to inspect was compressed. The surveyor was aware of this and even knew our expedited time frame to "deliver" the boat ASAP after the closing.

Am I expecting too much from a "Paid professional" ???
 
So you are saying that most/all of the items above were skipped during the survey? Or the report indicated no problems with them at the time?

Either way, it would seem to me that he missed one major coast guard safety item and some pretty obvious operational items (windlass/batteries)...did he even visit the boat?

IMHO he did a crap job and you should do your best to recover whatever you paid for the survey.
 
That's a pretty big list with some really important safety items like the navigation lights working.
He didn't spend much time on the boat or he would have noticed the hotwater heater wasn't working.
Let me guess the broker found the surveyor for you?
I didn't know any better when I bought my Mainship but I bought it knowing I was going to do a major overhaul although the boat's survey only pointed out some minor issues, nothing like your list.
Bill
 
I'd ask for my money back. After that step, I'd report the guy to SAMS. That list is way more than a simple oversight. he simply didn't even bother to do his job.
 
Tom when you say inverter, windlass not checked does that mean they have problems?
I like the 41 President it's a nice model.
Bill
 
Billylll: The 110 Vac power output through the Inverter was never verified. This test would have also confirmed that the "house" battery bank had 4 out of 6 batteries dead.

The Windlass was never deployed and retrieved to confirm the system was operational. Anchor rode lengths of chain and rope were never identified.
This was the line in his report:
Line: Yes Chain: Yes

The surveyor told me he spent a lot of time on the boat before I arrived both times. Inside storage survey in the spring inspecting the running gear and the sea trial day.

I think I will contact him and see what he says about the deficiencies. At some level, I think I should have demanded objective evidence and the full report prior to full payment. I guess I assumed he would have been thorough especially when he knew the journey across the country was ahead of us.

This SAMS surveyor was not recommended by the seller. I chose him off their website and by proximity to the boat.
 
Tom that sucks excuse my English. I'd be all over the surveyor but I think at best all you will get back is the survey money but that's only after you get another surveyor or mechanic to confront him with the evidence.
Bill
 
Sounds like my experience with the surveyor I hired in florida. I've spent almost 30% of the purchase price fixing major issues since he missed stuff.
 
I think part of it depends on when/where the survey took place. If the boat was in winter storage, he might not be able to check some items and should provide such a notation.

My bigest concern would be on the navigation lights, radar, and windless. These are all items which make the boat seaworthy. Things like the water heater are comfort items.

Sounds to me like he had a hot date and rushed to get out of there. Good luck.
 
Oh, and did I mention that the main engines can only be started and stopped from the lower helm station ?? Which is a little challenging seeing that the way the boat is set up the lower station is somewhat "non-operational", a huge TV is restricting your view in front of the wheel, no electronics are at the lower station etc...

Or the upper helm "hydraulic leak" in the steering station ? The old owner actually placed a semi-permanent hose to "fill" the unit before entrapped air was let into the system. Of course during our delivery I saw how much he had to add. We lost complete steering going into a lock on the erie canal. Ugh..... ???? This leak is being repaired before I leave the dock again.

Very frustrated that all this stuff was missed. The SAMS report looks like an "inventory" of items on the boat was taken and that is all.
 
I see this all to often. Even on larger boats.

It's sad to say but in most cases to get a real thorough survey you need more then one pair of trained eyes. On older boats you need some one to do a general/hull survey, a AC person to look at just the AC and refrigeration, a trained electrician to look over all the electrical systems, a engine/genset mechanic to check over those items and on bigger boats some one to look over the hydraulic systems.

You very rarely get a good survey the way most boats are surveyed. The surveyor just doesn't spend enough time on the boat and all the systems on board just don't get used on a survey like they do a real cruise. And quite frankly, many of them only seem to know what they need to know to fill out their lists and have little depth of knowledge, and/or are just in a hurry to get to the next job, no matter how many letters they have behind their last name.
 
Tom, This is one of the biggest reasons why i myself have ended my affiliation with SAMS! Since i have become a marine engineer i have parted ways with them. I have heard to many horror story's in relations to inexperienced individuals making a bad name for the rest of us. You should contact SAMS and report the deficiency's in your report, they will ensure the surveyor refunds your fee back to you.
 
Al will they really refund? I would love a refund in my disaster survey from fl
 
quote:

Originally posted by CaptCrunch

Al will they really refund? I would love a refund in my disaster survey from fl





It might be too late in your case.
Although I agree you got the raw end of the deal.
Bill
 
Some years ago, my boat had a problem that cost a lot to fix. My surveyor missed the problem. My problem didn't rear it's ugly head until 8-9 months after buying it. I went back to my surveyor and he refunded me his fee plus $500. It didn't cover my costs but sure helped.
 
When I was with them for eight years that's the way it used to be. Contact SAMS at the home office and file a complaint .
 
I did not practice the trade as long as Al has but I was one of the SAMS guys back in the 1980s. In Florida, too. Its too late to avoid the several issues in this instance but for the future and for all who may be contemplating the need for a surveyor, do be aware that smart buyers plan on accomplishing a load of "due diligence". In most situations a buyer can poke around and get a good sense of the surveyor's "waterfront reputation". Don't be slow to ask for local references. It is a fact that some brokers have favored connections with certain surveyors. This can act to the buyers favor so don't dismiss such recommendations out of hand. Just be aware. Try your best to be on scene during the survey. It can make a vast difference. Professional associations act to make poor performance rare but God didn't make all surveyors to be perfecr.

I agree that having some extra eyes, especially friends who know their way aroung deck and safety gear is a darn good plan. I've known buyers to bring along their female buddy and have her check out every damn one of the galley functions. Another persom can help by checking all the electrical bells and whistles. This all doesn't ensure a perfect survey but it puts some more help on the buyers side of the scale.
Some folks on this site have proven to be able to help if asked.
 
This is a tough issue. I mean, your supposed to be able to hire somebody to give you an accurate opinion. Mostly, you can't. I mean, you can, but only if you put in as much effort as it would take to qualify the boat in the first place, only you do so in the search process.

Another point....over the years I have become rather well qualified to form a valid opinion on just about every system on a boat. Maybe not specific brands/units, but few can. What I'm not qualified to do is to be my own surveyor. I can't overcome my personal bias when I get infatuated with a vessel. My surveyor is my infatuation safety valve and its helped before. That said, given the depth of opinion I would form independently, it gets pretty obvious pretty quick if a surveyor I'm using tried doing a skim job. It's kind of sad to have to say so, but it never hurts to have true skin in the game. Same thing goes for mechanical repairs. Doing enough research to be able to do a repair, even if you don't, gives you the footing to not get ripped off. I've had problems with mechanics I had great luck with, doing crappy jobs for friends of mine to the point I VERY RARELY recommend people. Never hurts to up your game and pays dividends when you break down out in the boonies.

No question in this industry that if you leave everything 100% to someone else, you won't have good experiences. At least, I don't know the formula for being able to do so, though admittedly I wish I knew how to farm out more items.
 
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