We have run into a problem... I am looking for a 1966 Ford 427 marine starter. Having problems finding a source for new marine starters for this block. The starter we have installed is bad once again, and has already undergone 2 complete rebuilds in the last 8 years, with the most recent being last spring (rebuild only lasted a season). Hoping to find new. Any suggestions? Might have to go with a reman unit, but looking for any suggestions. Thanks in advance. Also, direction will be an issue as the motors are opposite of each other, but I do not remember which direction the port motor is.
Source for Marine Starters
- Thread starter LBDboater
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- RO Number
- 20824
- Messages
- 2,958
Boatfix? Try to keep up son, Boatfix is closed.
or perhaps arcomarine.com which is a product line BoatFix used to carry. I looked at their catalog for a Ford marine starter another RO here wanted, and noticed ARCO won't stock them after their inventory is sold out. ARCO has a page designed to help determine rotation. If you've done that many rebuilds, I wonder if something isn't wrong. Is the starter getting wet?
If your starters keep failing, it might pay to check two things:
1) Make sure the heavy gauge cables are in good shape and all connections are clean and tight. A voltage drop can make it hard to turn the engine and this can draw excess current through the starter. Even if they are in good shape, they might be too small for the length and current.
2) Make sure there's not a mechanical problem with the engine that makes it harder to turn than it should be.
1) Make sure the heavy gauge cables are in good shape and all connections are clean and tight. A voltage drop can make it hard to turn the engine and this can draw excess current through the starter. Even if they are in good shape, they might be too small for the length and current.
2) Make sure there's not a mechanical problem with the engine that makes it harder to turn than it should be.
The correct way would be to measure the clearance between the starter gear and ring gear. Without knowing that clearance, no one really knows if shims are needed or not. Typically shims are used to get the correct clearance for the bendix to engage. Not enough clearance and it may not engage. To much clearance could accelerate the wear of the gears as their is less surface contact.
Excess load, either electrical or mechanical would cause your problems.
It became too hard to order from boatfix after Geo left so I haven't used boatfix in a number of years. I can make or rebuild pretty much anything on the boat.
It became too hard to order from boatfix after Geo left so I haven't used boatfix in a number of years. I can make or rebuild pretty much anything on the boat.
LBD:
I can't speak to why your starters are failing, however your 427 is part of the big block Ford "FE 385" series (390/427/460) and they all use the same starter as well as a lot of other parts. I have two (one cc-reverse rotation and one CCW-standard rotation) from 460s I replaced two years ago. Both mount to bellhousing from lower front. Price is very reasonable and if interested, send me an email: comogene at yahoo.
If you want new, ARCO makes them for the 385 series and available through a number of dealers.
Gene
I can't speak to why your starters are failing, however your 427 is part of the big block Ford "FE 385" series (390/427/460) and they all use the same starter as well as a lot of other parts. I have two (one cc-reverse rotation and one CCW-standard rotation) from 460s I replaced two years ago. Both mount to bellhousing from lower front. Price is very reasonable and if interested, send me an email: comogene at yahoo.
If you want new, ARCO makes them for the 385 series and available through a number of dealers.
Gene
So you do not care when replacing parts, that the new parts are within the tolerances they were designed for? You expect the replacement part to be identical to the old. Isn't that the reason why there are shims? To make up for difference in the tolerances of the parts so that as a whole, the unit still meets the minimum spec.
Granted, checking the clearance of the starter gear to the ring gear is not going to happen once the engine is installed. It's done at the factory where they can easily do it. But to assume that the old shims must be replaced, is not true. The reason shims were installed was because the original parts were out of spec.
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]Sorry for the lack of response, I have been on the boat the past few days and have not checked the forum. I contacted Arco and DB Electric, as both websites seemed promising. Both said they did not have a compatible starter, but that was me telling them it was for a 1966 Ford 427 and marine. There don't seem to be any shims involved, as far as I can tell. The starter is removed, it is a Prestolite, with part number MDU 7014. Gene, should I contact Arco again and tell and inquire about a marinized starter for a Ford 385FE? You feel confident that bolt pattern and starter models would be similar? I have contact Chris Craft Parts, and they do have a reman that will work, but the quoted price was 285 plus shipping. Was about to bite the bullet and order from them tomorrow, but decided I better check here and see if there were any more responses, and now I'm questioning whether I should do that before contacting Arco once more about the 385 starter. My other question for Gene, and I knew this would be an issue, but do you know which direction the port motor would spin? I am almost positive that the port motor spins counter clockwise (reverse rotation), but would like confirmation before going forward as well. I really do appreciate all the information everyone has given me, and look forward to any more that comes forward. Thank you all!
The rotation of the port engine may depend on which transmission and ratio and possibly model/serial # you have . The port prop on most all recreational twin engine I/B boats spins LH / counterclockwise viewed from above/and aft. . Some transmissions are "same output rotation " as the engine , in which case the port engine is almost surely the LH/CCW rotation. But if transmission output is "reverse output" from engine( like my Velvet Drive 72C's with 1.99:1 reduction gear )then port engine should be RH/CW rotation (above & from flywheel toward pulley end). But some transmission models are "fully reversing" , meaning twin engines can be same rotation and one transmission just cabled to move shift lever the opposite way.
Or check the direction of the timing marks on each engine , or the input and position of the input and output hose on the RW pumps of each engine if pumps are mounted the same way. .
Or check the cast firing order sequence on the intake manifold(?) against standard.
If you do know the engines are opposite from each other, just start the stbd to see which way that one turns.
Do you know what is failing on the rebuilds? Some of this was touched on above:
Could coolant or spray or rainwater be leaking down on them?
Bilge water getting up to them to cause rapid corrosion?
Excessive cranking with low voltage getting to the starter causing major overheat? Bad battery, connections or cables?
Pinion gear badly worn from poorly adjusted installation or broken mounting point?
Or?
http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Tech marine starter failure.pdf
Rotation:http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/tech%20determine%20marine%20starter%20rotation.pdf
http://www.google.com/search?source..._l=hp....0.0.2.819172...........0.xRgtNbvtUWk
Or check the direction of the timing marks on each engine , or the input and position of the input and output hose on the RW pumps of each engine if pumps are mounted the same way. .
Or check the cast firing order sequence on the intake manifold(?) against standard.
If you do know the engines are opposite from each other, just start the stbd to see which way that one turns.
Do you know what is failing on the rebuilds? Some of this was touched on above:
Could coolant or spray or rainwater be leaking down on them?
Bilge water getting up to them to cause rapid corrosion?
Excessive cranking with low voltage getting to the starter causing major overheat? Bad battery, connections or cables?
Pinion gear badly worn from poorly adjusted installation or broken mounting point?
Or?
http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Tech marine starter failure.pdf
Rotation:http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/tech%20determine%20marine%20starter%20rotation.pdf
http://www.google.com/search?source..._l=hp....0.0.2.819172...........0.xRgtNbvtUWk
I plan on doing more investigating/inspecting before installing any new/rebuilt starter. Water is not the issue, bilge water nor rain water. I did recently have an issue with the batteries going dead, an inline fuse from the charger to the batteries had blown. The boat had been slightly sluggish the weekend before, but I question whether a few starts (a half a dozen or less) at a slightly lower voltage would be enough wear and tear to destroy a freshly rebuilt starter. When the starter was rebuilt a year ago, the bendix and the brushes were replaced, but not the armature. I think this may be the issue currently, as the boat started but was making a crazy noise (one I have never heard before). We immediately shut the motor down, and after an inspection of everything, tried to restart the motor. Nothing... could hear the solenoid clicking fine. Pulled out the multimeter, had 13.8V at the batteries, 13.8V at the solenoid, and good continuity across the solenoid. Put everything away for the night, and when I checked the input at the starter two days later (when I had time) came up with 13.9V going into the starter with someone holding the key to start, but the starter wasnt even attempting to spin. We just rewired the 12V DC side and 120V AC side last year with an electrician, and I feel very confident after inspection that the connections are tight to the battery and that the cabling is properly sized for the load. My gut instinct is the armature in the starter is broken, as it was not replaced to memory during the last rebuild. The plan as of now... always subject to change... is to order a new/reman-ed starter to put back on, and at a later date, properly rebuild the starter I just pulled off as a spare as parts for these older 1966 Fords are becoming increasingly difficult to find and even more expensive when you do find them.
As far as engine rotation, almost certain the port is the LH/CCW motor. I am 100% positive that our engines are reverse of each other and the transmissions are identical (already dealt with engine rotation 3 years ago when dealing with a water pump that was rotation specific). I have the rotation of each noted in the boat binder, just requires pulling the ever growing binder out and double checking.
Any further responses are greatly welcomed and appreciated!
As far as engine rotation, almost certain the port is the LH/CCW motor. I am 100% positive that our engines are reverse of each other and the transmissions are identical (already dealt with engine rotation 3 years ago when dealing with a water pump that was rotation specific). I have the rotation of each noted in the boat binder, just requires pulling the ever growing binder out and double checking.
Any further responses are greatly welcomed and appreciated!