'08 Carvers

man this bow rail looks way forward of the windlass

sorry about the link... anyway it was a picture of a 50 hatteras.. The bow rail was way forward when looked at from the right perspective.. It was meant to tweak Pascal.
 
For god's sake, dmunneke, do something about that link. Please delete that post or at least the link so people can read this thread. I have to scroll about 20" to the right just to find the "submit reply" button...
 
So...Pascal...I just spend a week at an in water boat show with all brands available here in Ohio. I want you to tell me again how the deck arangement on Carvers does nothing to give you any more room inside of their cabins, and I'll tell you that you're full of s***. And, how big are you? I went on the foredeck of every Carver there, and had PLENTY of room to work lines and anchors. I think you have something against (by most of your posts) newer boats that aren't Hatteras or Viking style boats. By the way, We had a 1993 Viking 50 Motor Yacht there, good price, and, we have to bring it home, but we sold plenty of Carvers. Hmmmm.
 
6', 220lbs...

look, if i am biased against modern boats, and i'm not..., i think it's obvious that a boat salesman is biased and will defend what he sells...

i have nothing agaisnt new boats... when they are boats. simple. I could type up a long list of new boats i'd consider if i was in the market for such boats, starting with the Silverton Convertibles, the "classic" meridians, even Sundancers...

I just do not like boats were "boatability" takes a back seat.

my point about raising the side deck to increase living space is that while it gives a little more room, it doesn't give as much as it seems and it's simply not worth it to me. personal preference...

as to foredeck, it's obvious that 2 or 3 can stand at the bow of any boat... I never said that there was not enough room to work the lines but there are two issues with the foredeck of many boats.

1)- no flat area at at the bow... dont' tell me it's not safer to stand on a flat foredeck ahead of the cabin top instead of slopping foredeck... maybe it's fine at the boat show on an inland lake, but try going there to work a reluctant anchor in open waters...

2)- no space to sit and enjoy the view. There is 56/58' carver across the dock, aft cabin, enclosed flybridge, etc.. big boat... there is nowhere to sit, just 2 small sunpads. look at the 38 pictured above ! there isn't enough room to lie on the deck in front of the windshield.

I'm done with this thread... >I'm not goign to argue with you over this... you're asking how big i am when there is a picture of a boat where even a small woman can't lay down, we're wasting our time.

as you say, they sell... so that's all that matters.
 
I'm with Pascal with regard to this:

"I want you to tell me again how the deck arrangement on Carvers does nothing to give you any more room inside of their cabins, and I'll tell you that you're full of s***."

NOBODY disputes the fact that modern Carvers give you lots of room and amenities. They are floating mansions, for God's sake! But I heavily dispute their seakeeping and handling abilities. Firstly, they are too bulbous and top-heavy, and Carver is starting to put windows in the hull like other manufacturers where, IMHO, they don't belong. SECOND, I stood on the bridge of the 44 MY at the New York Boat Show a couple of years ago and COULDN'T SEE THE BOW OR THE STERN. Now I realize that the fluorescent lighting had something to do with it - the windshield was darkened and made it hard to see out of. But still, any boat where the only way to see the bow is to look through that tiny venturi windshield is asking for trouble. Nobody bothers to check out their seakeeping abilities at boat shows - they buy them for the fancy settees. Which is a shame...

Carver used to make all their models with an eye towards versatility and easy handling. Everybody I know says my 2896 handles like a toy boat when in slow speed and docking maneuvers. I can do tricks with that boat that my buddy wishes he could do with his Sea Ray 370 and tunnel drives and rudders half the size of mine. Nowadays Carver doesn't care about all that stuff, nor about people like me...

I hate to sound like I'm bashing Carver - I am after all the moderator of this forum! But at the same time lets be realistic and look analytically at the boats. This isn't the place for sales pitches. And to be fair, I sell boats too. Not Carvers, just little Stingrays and Sunsations. But if you dig through the archives of BoaterEd you'll find plenty of places where I was critical of Stingray and other makes. Fair is fair, and all boats are compromises, with pluses and minuses to them...
 
I am not a salesman! I work on them, and everything else that is sold in the Cleveland Area...I'm not that biased either.
 
again...not to argue, but if you haven't handled a new Carver, then you really can't say a thing about how they manuever for docking. Yes, a few are horrible at docking, but as they replace those models (42 Mariner) the new one is leaps and bounds better to dock. Lake Erie is not some lame inland lake...it is a force to be reconned with. Carver are also NOT top heavy...they leave that to Silverton. Every Carver I have been on (every one made from 1981 to date) is more stable at sea than just about everything else I've been on including Ocean Yachts (for which we are also a dealer). You can give me all the hearsay you want, but you're not going to change my opinion, especially if you haven't done anything but look in a catalog at the product!
 
Can you share with us, then, how Carver manages to make a boat with all that top hamper and a relatively shallow draft NOT top heavy??? I'm sure they don't use lead keels. So (seriously) how do they do it???

It would seem pretty obvious just from Physics that these boats would be top heavy compared to other styles of boats (and I would concur that Silverton has to be a lot worse!). As far as handling them, you're right, I personally haven't handled a Carver in the 40-plus range. But there are people out there who have, and I am not quoting things I haven't heard from people who've driven them...

Nobody questions that the Great Lakes are forces to be reckoned with. After all, they sank the Edmund Fitzgerald. And I'm sure they've sunk a few Carvers too, especially the size and age that I own. And nobody is calling the boats junk by any means. The argument here has to do with whether or not Carvers are all they CAN be, and I agree with Pascal that they are not due to marketing factors, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they are still wonderful boats, especially when stacked up against their competition...

I would imagine with today's electronic controls they must all be a helluva lot better for docking, no???

BTW, they say the BEST salesmen at the boat shows are the mechanics! People trust them, since after all you're the guy in the bilge when I have a problem. So judging from your enthusiasm I'm sure your bosses are thrilled to have you with them at that boat show. And I'm sure your customers are in good hands :)!!!
 
I actually thought Carvers had average to deep drafts. they don't appear to be any shallower than anything else in their class...maybe even deeper than most. But, aside from that, Carver keeps their beam wider all the way to the water line/chine, wherein most boats have that really nice looking tapered hull. This looks a little better, in my opinion, but decreases the water line beam significantly. The draft on a Carver 52 or 56 Voyager is about 5 feet...hardly shallow, but maybe moreso than say a Viking or Hatteras sportfish. Also, Carver moulds "stabilization pads" into the hulls...this is a wide area right at the chine, which keeps the boat from rocking in a beam sea or at the dock. As an example, my 6800lb 2757 Montego with a 10ft beam is nearly as stable at the dock as my dock neighbors 12,000lb 31ft Sea Ray...nearly.
 
I only have experience docking smaller boats and then my old 36 mariner.. Let me qualify by saying I boat on a lame inland lake, however the mariner is far easier to dock than I imagined. It pivots great and the wind isnt to bad in the 10-20 mph range. After that however the very large freeboard causes the bow to drift quickly. I'm sure the new boats have bow thrusters, but without there is a situation.. Still Love that boat !
 
dmunneke

any twin inboard boat should be easier to dock than sterndrives, although some with flat bottoms and small props will be a challenge as well as deep tunnels that will affect the efficiency in reverse.

there is more to stability than just draft. My boat only draws a little over 4 feet which is pretty shallow for a 53 footer BUT is has a keel and the running gear doesn't really extend beneath the keel.

on the other hand, some boats have a flat bottom with the props and rudders hanging off the bottom and extending a foot below the deepest part of the hull. So they may draw the same on paper but the weight is higher and they dont' have the damping effect agaisnt roll and the resistance to drag against wind.

of course, they use 30% less fuel and go 30% faster :-)

you can see that very clearly when looking at the pictures of the Carver-Marquis that fell off the slings... the bottom is flat with the running gear hanging below the hull. Nothing wrong with that obviously, I just thing it's worth knowing that there is more to it than just the actual draft number.
 
My thought on draft was more along the lines of "draft compared to height above the waterline". There's a lot of boat high out of the water on those big aft cabins. Still, its good to hear of the methods Carver uses to make a more stable ride and comfortable boat...

I guess the best thing these boats have going for them is all those fancy electronic thrusters and other equipment. A skilled helmsman can do tricks with a 60 footer that aren't possible with many other boats, if he has the right setup...

Perhaps I'm just more partial to "saltier" boats. I just loved the old fashioned Carvers. Someday I hope to graduate to one of those 40' cockpit MYs they made in the '90s. Of course, with my track record, I'll have to wait till the boat is 25 years old first [:-irked]...
 
I'm right there with ya Pete...I'm actually contemplating a late 80's early 90's 3257 Montego or 3557 Montego...lovely boats, both. The 35 has a nice 19 deg vee, and the 32 is a flat deadrise like the Mariner of the day, but it handles real well at sea and docking
 
I actually almost bought a 3257 before I bought my 2896. An old fellow was selling one at a ridiculously low price so I checked it out. Sadly, the boat was a real mess or I likely would have bought it, even though I am not an express cruiser fan and IMHO the galley is too small. Its still a really nice boat. But alas it needed too much work so I bought my 28. And don't regret it, either, because among many other things the galley in my boat is as big as that of the 3257 if not bigger, and the way we use the boat we really appreciate having that full sized stove with oven - everybody at our club always laughs at the elaborate dishes I can conjure up right there in my own galley. They're like, "you've got an OVEN in that thing??????" Most everybody else has to go up and use the stove in the clubhouse...

The 35 looked very interesting although I guess Carver didn't make it for very long...

What do you think of the Santego style? The 34 or the original 38???
 
I love the Santegos...especially the 38. That 14' beam is awesome. I tend to gravitate towards express/mid cabin style boats though. But, surely a 3467 is definately something my partner and I will look at for the next Dog House. I even like the 3067, especially when they went to v-drive inboards. A very roomy and well layed out boat
 
Did you guys have to start this just when we're selling our 3557 ????? Love the boat, it's beamy, & beautiful, easy to entertain on without being crowded. Everyone who comes aboard loves it. We've had 5 great years with her.

We, however, are just getting to darn old & achy to handle everything we have, so it's time to cut back. This boat fit our needs & capabilities to a T.. We'll miss it a lot! Now I'm going to cry.
 
That's right! I forgot you had one of those. Are you SURE you still want to sell it :) ??????
 
Not really Pete, but it's time. Showing it Friday to a very interested party. I feel like we're selling a child, we've put so much love & care into it! And big bucks in improvments & upgrades as well.
 
Its a beautiful boat - I hope your customer appreciates it. What's next for you, boating-wise???
 
I wish I knew. Maybe we wont be able to stand not being on the water, Maybe we'll opt for a place to escape the cold. Right now a state of flux. PS: I love the 38 Santego too! Whatever we decide it will be a Carver for sure!
 
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