1986 41' Viking vs 1986 42' Bertrum

PascalG, yes you are right on concerning so called "over hauls". Years ago I worked for a company that truly overhauled engines for the military-complete disassembly, new hardware, wires, hoses, etc. stripped down to component parts and returned to factory specs and dyno'd. We saw what our "competion" would do-disgraceful!

I looked through several Haterass' based on your suggestion; they appear to offer more for the money...how do they stand up to a Bertram?

Mike
 
quality wise, Bertram and Hatteras are on the same level i don't think that anyone can really say that one is better than another. In my opinion, Hatt has an edge in the interior departement with excellent wood work and great veneer styling vs the bertram more utilitarian style.

another thing is support. Bertram went under in the early 90s whereas Hatteras made it thru these though times and still stand behind its older boats. You can call them and order a full set of blueprint and manuals going as far as the late 60s... they can still answer questions about how the boat where built and where things are located... pretty impressive and unique in the industry.
 
Just to include Viking in Pascal's analysis, I would put the Viking quality right there with Bertram and Hatteras. The difference is not quality but hull design. Hatteras has the deepest V hull, then Bert, then Viking. Some prefer the smoother (slower) Deeper V. But the difference is design, not quality.

Viking, like Hatteras, is still run by the original owners and many original workers. They are amazing with information on their early boats.

Finally, I would put the interior woodwork (and layout) of the Viking at the top of the list of these three - exceeding that of Hatteras, with Bertram at the other extreme. One of the reasons I said in my earlier post to consider other than the hull.
 
Same thing can be said for Viking. Everything is stamped with the hull number. They can pretty much tell you what screws were used to put something together. I've had good luck getting replacement parts and they are very helpful.

A friend who owns a boat yard advised us a few years ago that if we were looking for a solid offshore boat to look at Viking, Hatteras and Bertram - not in any particular order.

I still think it comes down to personal preference on style, layout and how they survey.
 
(I began this diatribe as I was drinking my first cup of coffee.)

In this year, size, and price range, the top three have been and are Hatteras, Bertram, and Viking, and not in any particular order. Each is a very-good representation of what each company has had to offer in this size range, and there are pluses and minuses in each.

In any head or bow-quartering-sea situation, you'll be the most comfortable in the Bertram, due mostly to its weight and deep-vee bottom configuration. It is, by the way, the only one that is notable for its deep-vee bottom design, the others having bottom configurations that are referred to as modified-vee, but definitely not deep-vee. That having been said, once you reach your offshore destination and throttle back and begin to troll, the deep-vee loses its great advantage and the boat will then begin to rock 'n' roll. This will get old very quickly.

The Hatteras and the Viking will still give you a respectable ride in the head or bow-quartering sea, and in most cases will give you a more stable ride at trolling speeds. You will have lots of spray in the Viking, but you will have lots of spray in any of these boats in a bow-quartering situation in which there is also a stiff breeze.

A note about the engines -- the naturally aspirated 6-71 is one of the finest engines ever designed and produced by Detroit Diesel. Unfortunately, as the HP got higher, the dependability got lower. At 485HP, the 6-71s tend to come apart way more often than the 450HP models, but even then, one must depend upon the mechanical inspection to prove or disprove the extent of any major overhaul.

And speaking of mechanical inspection/engine surveys, in my opinion that you should use only an authorized DDA distributor/sales/repair facility to do your engine survey, and not "Joe's diesel service" (fictitious name), unless, and only unless, you personally know "Joe" and personally know some of his clientele and personally know his reputation. I'm pretty sure that you'll find the 6-71 (turbo-charged) in both the 41' Viking and the 41' Hatteras.

Jonathan made an important point about the longevity of these high-performance diesel engines that I'd like to restate:
quote:

"You can de-tune either of these motors by taking pitch out of the prop without messing with injectors, etc...... You will lose speed but gain longevity."




This is a very good point as the speed that you'll lose (minimal) is more than gained in the longevity that you'll gain.

The 475HP 6V92TA Detroits, in and of themselves, are generally considered to be a good match to the 42' Bertram. Even though there is additional "room" for higher HP as mentioned by Jonathan, the manner in which they have been run is critical as to what you may expect down the road. Obviously, no matter what, a DDA engine survey with oil samples for the fluids is necessary as part of your buying process.

From your comments, each of these boats should meet your overall ride requirement, especially if, as you stated, you generally fish only 10 to 30-miles offshore with an occasional trip out to the Gulfstream. The fact that you are coming out of a 23' Grady will make any one of these seem like the Queen Mary, so you may wish to consider just how much time that you'll actually be spending offshore as opposed to the amount of time that you'll be spending aboard and cruising the ICW. The change in size, going from 23' to 41' or 42' will definitely change the way that you do your boating. And it's a step in the right direction. Have fun and good luck with the process.

(Whew! See what a few of cups of coffee can do?)
 
Once again, thank you all for this invaluable, and most importantly, UNBIASED comparison of these vessels and the various features to be aware of when purchasing.

Am I correct in summarizing this information as follows:

1. All three boats are built high quality vessels
2. The Bertram will get you there with the smoothest/driest ride, but you potentially will be very uncomfortable due to the deep V's tendency to be rolly (new word) during troling and anchoring
3. The Viking is the wetest boat in all conditions as compared to the Bertram and Hatteras
4. The Hatteras and Bertram have generally dry rides except for strong wind conditions
5. The Hatteras has a smoother ride than the Viking due to its heavier, deeper modified "V" hull design than the Viking
5. Sea trials and a professionally conducted survey are a critical part of the buying decision.

Based upon the above criteria (please correct me if I am misunderstanding something), I have (1) ruled out the Bertam because of its trolling characteristics and the lack of continuing manufacturer support; and (2) have narrowed my search to Hatteras and Viking, favoring the Hatteras due to its drier, smoother ride-although I personally greatly prefer Viking's cabin design over the others, however, I spend little time in the cabin, and would much rather have a comfortable/drier ride.

Once again, thank you all, and please do not hesitate to set me straight if I have drawn the wrong conclusions.

Mike
 
about engines, Bill 2's advice is importnat. dont' forget that you can only get some much HP from the same displacement. it's real obvious with DDs since you know right away what the cid is from teh engine model... as you close in on .9 to 1 ratio, reliability and longeivity starts going down fast... over 1:1 you're looking as shorter lifespans... diesel rebuilt aren't cheap... 3k a hole is an average, a little more depeding on waht's needed. the stakes are higher
 
PascalG, thanks, point taken! There was also an earlier comment by Jonathan to "de-pitch" the props in order to reduce engine wear.

What does this process entail, does it require new props, or do you have the existing props modified?

Mike
 
You can, in most cases just have the props cut down and repitched to a lower pitch by a competent prop shop to effectively de-rate a 2 stroke Detroit Diesel.

The DD's have mechanical govenors on them, once the govenors kick in the motors will not make more power, unlike newer motors that will continue to make power. This in effect lowers the HP rating of the motor without having the mess with the motors.

A 475hp 6V92 is de-rated enough IMHO without having to do anything to the props, compared to a 625 HP version of the same motor which is too much output for the design, you should see 2500 hours easy on this motor vs 1000 for the 625hp.

Jonathan
 
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