2nd Thoughts.....

G

Greg Schoenberg

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Quick background. We sold our 25 foot express cruiser and bought a 22 foot alaskan bulkhead trailerable cruiser (Campion) and an '82 30 foot Carver AC. Last weekend, most of the work was finalized on it and we delivered, with the help of a charter captain, from LaConner to Anacortes yesterday. The boat will be in charter for the summer (4 weeks are already booked).

We really enjoyed our time on the Carver but....getting the boat underway and moored that has me very concerned. We faced wind and a strong tide current which took us an hour just to get away from the dock. We had to move another boat too in the process. Arrival was a similar challenge. The captain had to do it....no way I could. This raised our eyebrows on the feasability and expenses of using the boat in the off season. On open water, she handles like a dream. In close quarters, she's a toad....and I question if the white knuckles experiences we'll have docking it is worth the reward, not to mention the cost of moorage and gas for twin crusaders.

Consequently, we're thinking about selling it after charter season. In it's place, buy a creme puff RoadTrek Class B RV (campervan) for around 25k and haul the all season 22 footer wherever we please. Under tow, the van get 12-15 mpg. The boat gets 4 mpg. Heck of a lot cheaper than moorage and gas for a 30 footer. Also, we have the versatility of sleeping in the RV or the boat.

Our other thought is chartering the Carver year after year and while using it ourselves a few times each year. Offseason, put it on the hard. If the income vs. expenses is on the plus side each year, then essentially somebody else is buying our boat while I enjoy some nice tax benefits.

Thoughts??

-Greg
 
No thoughts on the charter situation, but my first thought on your concerns over close quarter handling is that you should give it more time and practice. Study up on spring lines, maybe even get some instruction, and practice first in calm winds. Even if you've already done your homework, studying technique and imagining various situations is a good refresher.
 
It sounds to me like you got a little scared of the size and the ability to be pushed around in the wind. I see it all the time in some people I sell boats to, just take it out on a pristine day and do some practice runs at a larger empty dock or by some bouys. I am sure you will get the hang of handling the boat, really with twins its not that hard. You just need to get the basics down and plenty of practice behind the wheel. I wouldn't hesitate to take my boat out in any wind condition and I have probably the most sail area you can get without actually being a sailboat.
 
Ultimately, I boat to relax. If I'm going to be anxious each time I arrive at my destination or inhibited by the threat of wind, then am I really relaxing? In contrast, I've been boating for 25 years with 25' or smaller boats with single engines. I have a ton of confidence and experience in most inland water conditions. The situation we faced yesterday would have been cake on our Campion.

That's one of the pros to downsizing permananently to a trailerable cruiser and hauling it with a small RV. If the weather is rotten, we disconnect the trailer or go somewhere. For example, tow the boat to Anacortes, and spend the day/night on the pond doing a San Juan Island loop. Weather is lousy, drop the trailer/boat, and go by ferry or road. I don't have that flexibility with a 30 footer. The living space in the Carver is wonderful...no doubt....but a 19 foot Roadtrek features a king size bed, galley, head, shower, gen, flat screen TV, inverter, etc. We can spend the night in it at a boat launch vs. the transient dock.

Also, I can indoor store both the boat and RV for a $340/mo... Wet moorage at Anacortes is $300/mo.

Still just thinkin..... I'm not going to make any move until summer is over.
 
having to move anouther boat to get out means it's a problem with the slip, not the boat...

if this was your first time on a larger twin engine boat, all you need is practice. the bigger the boat, the easier they are to handle assuming twin engine of course. I understand you have a fairly flat bottom, light boat with a lot of windage but you also have twin engine... practice practice practice.

a very good confidence building excercise is to find yourself a piling and practice getting the bow withing inches of the piling... start bow into the wind then practice with the wind coming on different sides. the nice thing about using a piling is that you have a good line of sight vs using buoys as often recommended. and if you boat as decent pulpit, you can touch the piling without any risk.

I had my neighbor do that last month, he asked me for help after he rammed me coming back in a few months ago, it did wonders for his close quarter skills.

personally i find towing a much bigger hassle that single handling a large boat...
 
Greg,

I think the others are right, your comfort level and close quarter handling skills will both go up as you practice with the boat. Ultimately, docking is just another part of boating and you will be relaxed. I suspect you have a bit of buyers remorse and are hoping that someone will chime in and endorse your change of heart. If you'd rather have an RV, go for it, but it won't be the same as traveling in your 30 footer. My wife is pushing me to make a similar move and she doesn't seem to understand that planning an executing a voyage on the boat is an enjoyable challenge for me; driving a motorhome is ................ well it's just driving.

Go out and practice your twin engine handling skills on calm days and soon you'll be pulling that thing into docks under any conditions without worry.
 
On the other hand if you feel the boat is such a difficult boat to handle then why are you letting others charter it from you? I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV but do you have an obligation to inform your customers here?
 
quote:
Originally posted by rommer

On the other hand if you feel the boat is such a difficult boat to handle then why are you letting others charter it from you? I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV but do you have an obligation to inform your customers here?

Click to expand...


It's probably no more difficult than any other 30 footer with a flybridge. Also, they will not have a flybridge cover....just a bimini. We had it fully covered, which accentuates the box kite aspect of it. Also, most charterers are experienced boat operators. Finally, the company will not let them moor the boat. They just have to get it to a transient dock at departure and arrival.

-Greg
 
quote:
Originally posted by AbsoLoot

Greg,

I think the others are right, your comfort level and close quarter handling skills will both go up as you practice with the boat. Ultimately, docking is just another part of boating and you will be relaxed. I suspect you have a bit of buyers remorse and are hoping that someone will chime in and endorse your change of heart. If you'd rather have an RV, go for it, but it won't be the same as traveling in your 30 footer. My wife is pushing me to make a similar move and she doesn't seem to understand that planning an executing a voyage on the boat is an enjoyable challenge for me; driving a motorhome is ................ well it's just driving.

Go out and practice your twin engine handling skills on calm days and soon you'll be pulling that thing into docks under any conditions without worry.

Click to expand...


I'm not excited about RV'ing, in of itself, but combining the two has me thinking warm fuzzy thoughts. Passagemaker did an interesting article about trailerable trawlering. Lots of upside to it, especially if you want to explore lakes and so forth.

-Greg
 
Greg, I know what you are experiencing, having just moved from a trailered 24', single screw lake boat to a 36', twin screw, aft cabin motor yacht with a huge sail area (e.g. 15' tall). I hired a captain to train me and after 6 hours am now comfortable taking the boat out on my own. The control of the twin screws are a pure joy once you get use to them. I can hover in place, turn on a dime, and back up with total control, something I had no chance of doing with my old boat. Hang it there.
 
Boy I wish I had the time and money to just go and buy and sell boats on the spur of the moment like that...

To anyone looking to buy a big boat - please research it carefully and try to test drive one before you buy so you can avoid making a costly mistake (you may not be able to do a test drive with a dealer but maybe a friend can take you out)...

To Greg, in his current situation - I would throw my hat into the "hang in there" category. Boating isn't some spur of the moment hobby. Like anything else worth doing (golf or skiing, for example) it takes practice and dedication to get right. Put your all into it, and dive in to your hobby with a vengeance and a passion. You'll get it right. A twin screw boat can be a dream to handle once you figure out the nuances. And one trip on a windy day isn't the way to do it. Get out there in calm weather, throw some life vests over the side and try to back down in between them. Practice in controlled situations. That way, when the weather is crappy or there's a current, you'll be prepared...

Just my 2 cents, but everyone I know, including myself, that has driven larger twin screw boats feels that eventually they are easier to handle than smaller, single screw jobs...
 
Greg, I had a carver 30ft. aft and now own a meridian 381, with all boats whether single or twin engines, there is always one thing the experienced Captain looks at when coming into or leaving the dock. How much "WIND" there is, its direction and force,and how is it going to affect your boat,account for it and plan your actions accordingly, hopefully any surprises will be few. The good part is that you are never thinking of the office as your coming in and thats good,,,,,right.....
 
Its not uncommon for folks with aft cabins to stay at the dock on high wind days; with all that extra room, it should still be an enjoyable experience.
 
If you go with the RV you will have to join there forum. Do you have any idea what those people are like.

Next year you will be asking about gas station awnings. Never go to the dark side.
 
Willy,

I must admit that I've been doing a little research in the RV forums. BUT....I've been doing some thinking about my Carver too. I'm not going to make any decisions about it until the summer charter plays out...evaluating income received vs. expenses and damage to the boat. If all is thumbs up, then we'll likely keep the boat, put it on the hard in the offseason, and use it a couple of times ourselves each year. If it makes money each year, then essentially others will be paying for our future live-aboard summer yacht. If it loses money and/or is damaged appreciably, then we'll sell it. In either event, I plan on buying a used class B RV (camper-van)in combination with hauling our 22 footer. A nice one can be had for 15-20k.

I do take comfort in the various posts assuring me that I can learn this boat. I agree! Thanks!!
The two marinas we used, LaConner and Skyline (Anacortes), are notorious for wind, tide, and current. Worse case scenario, in these conditions, is tie up at the transient dock and pay $20 to somebody to moor it. Boatyards always employ experienced boathandlers.
 
Fly me out there, you will be docking like a pro in no time flat. Have you thought of having somebody come aboard and teaching you how to maneuver your 30? Not just a delivery captain but somebody who can show you the ropes and take a full day to do it, it would be worth its weight in gold!
 
I did take a lesson of sorts the last trip. Did some manuevers in open water and so forth. I felt comfortable until we arrived at the marina. In there, given the current, wind, and close proximity of other boats, one had to be perfect. The captain didn't entertain the idea of me mooring it....and I was relieved. When I can boat or live on it more, then I will practice...practice...practice. Until then, I have to figure out if this boat is the best deal for us now. There is more to this decision than my ability or inability to manuever it.

-Greg
 
If you can make friend with another boater who is good at docking or a Captain you can hire for a few hours (who is good at teaching) it will be well worth the cost. Boating is not fun until you're over the White Knuckle Fear of docking in bad conditions. Get the knowledgeable person to show you what you need to learn. Once you know it it will be second nature. Keep in mind, we were all there at one time.
 
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