AGM, Lithium, or Flooded Cell for Deep Cycle battery for trolling motor.

[Brian N]

Quick question...

Wifey just bought an electric fishing Kayak to use for her wildlife and bird photography.

It takes a Group 27 deep cycle battery. I'm leaning toward an AGM over a flooded cell due to less maintenance or risk of acid spills.

I looked at the Lithium until I saw the price. Holy smokes!

Is there anything that makes the lithium that much better aside from weight? We're talking $230ish vs $700+

Thoughts?

Any recommendations on brands to look at or stay away from either way?

 

[boatbum]

Lithium should provide longer charge life. So she should get around farther with one of those. People in RVs are switching the house bank over to them. One has to convert all of the charging over to lithium though and that includes the alternator. From what I gather a lithium battery will draw more current charging than a flooded or AGM and burn out the alternator. As a result there is a device to insert into the alternator charge loop to manage charging a lithium battery.
So you will need a charger that can handle a lithium battery.

 

[Radioactive]

LiIon :

greater power/lb storage. Higher charge discharge rate. Also deeper discharge.

Anecdotally, there is some difficulty in actually getting that which is advertised. Fakes abound. YMMV

Really expensive.

Despite reporting, I am not convinced that LiIon really is recyclable.

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Lead/acid

Heavy. comparatively lower power/weight.

While "fakes" exist, it does not seem to matter. There are only a few actual manufacturers, who manufacture to spec and badge however you like. Premium bats exist but may not be necessary.

"Affordable".

Fewer tears when stolen.

-------------

You will be hauling the battery frequently, so AGM would be my choice.

 

[Brian N]

Lithium should provide longer charge life. So she should get around farther with one of those. People in RVs are switching the house bank over to them. One has to convert all of the charging over to lithium though and that includes the alternator. From what I gather a lithium battery will draw more current charging than a flooded or AGM and burn out the alternator. As a result there is a device to insert into the alternator charge loop to manage charging a lithium battery.
So you will need a charger that can handle a lithium battery.

There won't be an alternator, just plugging in the charger at home between uses.

The plan is to set up a trailer for her, so she won't have to carry the battery or kayak into the water. So the weight isn't as much of a problem, and I'm thinking the heavier battery will actually add some stability to the already very stable platform.

 

[Bill D.]

Doubtful she would get any 'real' added benefit from the lithium, meaning needing extra running time. I recently installed AGM's in the RV because rather than following the hype and high upgrade cost my dry camping needs are easily handled by AGM's. I ran deep cycle wet cells in bass boats for trolling motor use and they handled a full days fishing with no problem. I switched to AGM's when they came out mostly for convenience. I've found it to be mostly bs when someone claims you can not run AGM's down as far without damage. My advice is go AGM.

 

[Phillbo]

I love the 2 lithium's in my trailer.

 

[PascalG]

I would avoid lithium as they don’t like getting wet due to the circuitry in the battery.

I d use an AGM, no worry about spills.

 

[Brian N]

I would avoid lithium as they don’t like getting wet due to the circuitry in the battery.

I d use an AGM, no worry about spills.

Good to know, thanks Pascal.

I have ordered an AGM for it...I just can't see the benefit/cost for the AGM being worthwhile.

 

[boatbum]

AGM was nothing better than regular flooded IMHO. But in tight quarters they make sense.

 

[Brian N]

AGM was nothing better than regular flooded IMHO. But in tight quarters they make sense.

Since it is going in a kayak, it was the lack of spillage risk that drew me to the AGM.

 

[boatbum]

Since it is going in a kayak, it was the lack of spillage risk that drew me to the AGM.

Completely appropriate. But what is the difference between a sealed lead acid and an AGM? Money?

 

[Brian N]

The local places I checked did not show any sealed lead acid available.

 

[Bill D.]

AGM was nothing better than regular flooded IMHO. But in tight quarters they make sense.

Not so. AGM the glass mat absorbing electrolyte makes them better in applications where shock and vibration is higher, boats, offroad, vehicles. They are longer lasting in deep cycle use as they can be discharged and recharged without as much performance degradation. I used both in my Whaler Conquest over the years I had it. The AGM's gave more years of service and did not discharge as fast when in storage.

 

[alk]

Lithium Ion can’t get wet. But you would be looking for Lithium Iron Phosphate ( lifep04), which are the safest batteries you can buy. they do fine when wet, and barely discharge when not used. A lifep04 will last for 5-10 times as many discharges as an agm, if not more. You can run them down to 0%, a few thousand times. If you never run below 20%, you get 15 thousand cycles. A agm will give you a few hundred. They are more expensive though. But they aren’t ten times the price, so they are a much better buy for most applications. And it’s a competitive market, with prices per kw dropping every month. When is the last time you saw an agm get cheaper?

This is a pretty nice $259 battery, great reviews on many YouTube’s. If you like agm’s over lead acid, you will really like lifep04. There is a lot of junk out there though, so be sure to buy a well reviewed brand.

https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-100ah-tm-deep-cycle-lifepo4-battery-for-trolling-motors

Unless you are plugging into an existing charging system / alternator that can’t handle it, or need the high amps to spin a starter, doesn’t make much sense to not go lifep04, in my opinion.

 

[Bill D.]

Lithium Ion can’t get wet. But you would be looking for Lithium Iron Phosphate ( lifep04), which are the safest batteries you can buy. they do fine when wet, and barely discharge when not used. A lifep04 will last for 5-10 times as many discharges as an agm, if not more. You can run them down to 0%, a few thousand times. If you never run below 20%, you get 15 thousand cycles. A agm will give you a few hundred. They are more expensive though. But they aren’t ten times the price, so they are a much better buy for most applications. And it’s a competitive market, with prices per kw dropping every month. When is the last time you saw an agm get cheaper?

This is a pretty nice $259 battery, great reviews on many YouTube’s. If you like agm’s over lead acid, you will really like lifep04. There is a lot of junk out there though, so be sure to buy a well reviewed brand.

https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-100ah-tm-deep-cycle-lifepo4-battery-for-trolling-motors

Unless you are plugging into an existing charging system / alternator that can’t handle it, or need the high amps to spin a starter, doesn’t make much sense to not go lifep04, in my opinion.

I guess usage vs cost also comes into play. Since Brian lives where the water is only soft about 4 weeks each year I'm thinking kayak trolling motor use will be light. Trolling motors suck on hard (ice) waters.

 

[PascalG]

Lithium Ion can’t get wet. But you would be looking for Lithium Iron Phosphate ( lifep04), which are the safest batteries you can buy. they do fine when wet, and barely discharge when not used. A lifep04 will last for 5-10 times as many discharges as an agm, if not more. You can run them down to 0%, a few thousand times. If you never run below 20%, you get 15 thousand cycles. A agm will give you a few hundred. They are more expensive though. But they aren’t ten times the price, so they are a much better buy for most applications. And it’s a competitive market, with prices per kw dropping every month. When is the last time you saw an agm get cheaper?

This is a pretty nice $259 battery, great reviews on many YouTube’s. If you like agm’s over lead acid, you will really like lifep04. There is a lot of junk out there though, so be sure to buy a well reviewed brand.

https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-100ah-tm-deep-cycle-lifepo4-battery-for-trolling-motors

Unless you are plugging into an existing charging system / alternator that can’t handle it, or need the high amps to spin a starter, doesn’t make much sense to not go lifep04, in my opinion.

Made in china ….

 

[alk]

Yes, if you are only going to drain and charge your battery a hundred times or so, and then are done with it, agm is fine. And once we get to a certain ago, I suppose a battery that lasts 15-20 years isn’t all that good of a deal…

Litime is made in China. But they get great reviews compared to most of the other chineese junk. If you want to go American, Battleborn is probably the most recognized right now. But unless you are living off the grid, and depend on your batteries daily, hard to justify the cost.

 

[Brian N]

Well @alk , I'll let you know how it goes. I ordered a LiTime after watching a bunch of videos and reading lots of reviews.

Yes, it is made in China...but this is not something critical, it's just to run a kayak trolling motor, and the reduced weight will make it much easier for her to deal with on her own. Hopefully it works out well.

 

[Bill D.]

Well @alk , I'll let you know how it goes. I ordered a LiTime after watching a bunch of videos and reading lots of reviews.

Yes, it is made in China...but this is not something critical, it's just to run a kayak trolling motor, and the reduced weight will make it much easier for her to deal with on her own. Hopefully it works out well.

I have a SeaEagle inflatable pontoon with trolling and lithium no problems, but I charge it where I can see it....just because

 

[alk]

Well @alk , I'll let you know how it goes. I ordered a LiTime after watching a bunch of videos and reading lots of reviews.

Yes, it is made in China...but this is not something critical, it's just to run a kayak trolling motor, and the reduced weight will make it much easier for her to deal with on her own. Hopefully it works out well.

How did that battery end up working out? I’m looking out my window at my canoe this morning, which I use a trolling motor on. The lead acid battery I’ve used the past few years barely held a charge last summer, so I need a replacement. Wondering if the litime worked out for you? Price dropped by 20% since last summer.