Al, ever survey a boat that was previously sunk?

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HarlenW

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There is this 40' 2002 Nordhavn that sank in 2004 after a bizarre delivery mishap when the crew ran it aground on a reef during low tide in Alaska, abandoned ship, but didn't close the port holes. When the tide rose, it flooded the boat and it was fully underwater during high tide for two days. There was no hull damage. The boat was bought from the insurance company and major renovations were done, systems repaired or replaced and it is now for sale. The current owners bought the boat a year ago and used it, but have to sell for personal reasons, nothing to do with problems with the boat.

I saw the boat and it looks to be in very good condition. I think it can be bought for a considerable discount. So my question is, should I even consider it? I would, of course, obtain very thorough surveys first.

Can a boat that has been sunk ever be considered reasonably sound?

Thanks!
 
I have a 35 Luhrs that had sunk, completely for about 6 hours. I bought it from a marine salvage co. Nothing had been done yet, except a VERY poor job of 'pickling' the engines and trans, (read-throw them away!) I gutted the boat, replaced all wiring and put in new elec. panels. Replaced all elec. components, like pumps, lights, guages, etc. replaced the engines/trans, and cut in a transom door while I was at it. The only really special thing I did was to close up each area, one at a time and run a dehumidifier until all excess moisture was removed. There wasn't much anyway. I took the foam out of all the cushions, that had just been reupholstered, and washed them in a comm. extractor washer machine. They came out great. Even the teak/holly floors came out nice after a quick sand/ re-poly. No problems yet!! Thank God for sweat equity!
 
Harlen, Yes i have. With the vessel being sunk in saltwater there are so many problems that come to mind. Was the vessel recovered by a salvage company that knew what they where doing to save major drive components the right way? All wiring would have had to be replaced. There will be never ending problems there for one. Moisture can harbor in areas of the hull and create problems in later years. Engines and transmissions would have had to have major repairs. If not premature wear will be a big factor. I dont ever advise my clients to buy a sunk boat. Its almost never worth the effort.
 
there is a big difference in systems and complexity between a 35' luhrs and a 40' nordhavn...

IF (big if) the boat has been running good for over a year... IF you have evidence that wiring, engines, etc.. were replaced, IF the price is really deeply discounted, IF IF IF... maybe just maybe it's worth considering and survey.

i think this is the kind of "bargain" that only someone that's very mechanically inclined and who has a lot of time should deal with.
 
Harlan, I am no expert however I am when it comes to electronics and wiring I do have experience. I would want proof that the main panels, battery switches, any relays, aux. panels, ACRs, controllers,inverters, outlets, switches, light fixtures, the microwave or electric stove/heater, any GenSet control boards and "all" wiring were replaced. These problems may not happen for a few years once they start they will never end. Without saying all navigation, entertainment and communications gear should have been replaced as well. When it comes to power plants, transmissions and drives I take advice from others. I think I would pass without proper documentation of the work that was done. Saltwater and electronics don't mix and boats are full of electronics and wiring. Regards Bill
 
One last point to consider. One day you will probably want to sell this boat, and legally you will have to disclose it's history. That will definitely limit your potential market.....if not make it dam* near impossible to sell. Just something to keep in mind; your not just buying it for you, youre also buying it for the guy you'll sell it to.
best of luck,
 
Thanks, guys, for your excellent input. You reflect many of the concerns I have, even with my limited experience.

The boat has had two owners since the sinking. Owner #1 bought it from the salvage company and replaced a number of components and did some major repairs. Everything has been well documented. The second owners bought the boat a year ago, had a survey done by one of the well respected surveyors in our region (I have seen the survey) who made some further recommendations, most of which they carried out, again, with good documentation. If I continue with this I would plan to talk with that surveyor, with the current owner’s permission, to get his general opinion since he has actually seen the boat. He would be the best choice for a new, and very thorough survey, should I get really crazy and make on offer on the boat.

Terry, regarding wanting to sell the boat again in the future; I have thought about that issue, too. Here is my thinking, all please feel free to freely comment. I would likely keep this boat from 5 to 10 years or longer. I would think that the concern over the sinking would diminish with each passing year, especially if (I concede the big if) the boat’s systems are functioning well.

Pascal, regarding taking on this “bargain”, I have the time but not the mechanical skills and expertise so would have to make sure all components have either been fully serviced or replaced or that I factored in the cost for further repairs into my offer.

All, given that all components and systems are in acceptable condition and this boat without its unfortunate history would likely sell for $400k to $450k, what would you offer for the boat?
 
it really depends on what was replaced.

where the engines, trannies and genset either replaced or completely rebuilt? that's really the big thing here. if they were just flushed and electrical components replaced/rebuilt, you are still likely to have some corrosion / wear in there which will result in shorter life. That only is "worth" 50k (single or twin ?)

were all electrical components replaced, not just cleaned up...

you have to look at what has not been done, assume it will have a shorter lifespan and put a $ amount on it.

hard to tell. If you are not mechanically inclined and have to pay $100/hr troubleshooting something, i would say... pass.
 
If the boat was salvaged, some States will note this on the title. I'm sure this vessel is Documented but also what will the Insurance company have to say when you try to insure it? Again disclosure will be required when you sell.
 
Unfortuanately I purchased a boat which had been sunk in salt water--some duplicity on the part of the owner, probably the yacht broker and perhaps surveyor..but I did discover exactly what happened. Some work had been done--some had not. I brought the boat back to as good shape as possiable and within reason. I sold the boat because of my own health reasons, and did disclose the damage as well as what had been done. I did loose a little on the deal--but not a lot. The boat was "OK"--ran fine, engines were good. Both and the tranny's had been pickled. I eventually put in a new 8 KW genset and redid some more of the wiring.

I sold it about 6 years after the sinking. There were little things which came up. The next owner had it for another 6 years, and he had minor problems--the next owner cruised it extensively and probably didn't have much more problems than the average boat that age, but by then all of the tanks, most of the wiring, all of the electrical and all of the electronics had been replaced.

Other things which will show up--plywood vinier which is soaked may delaminate or stain from the water. There are a few ferrous metals, which are hidden away, and never got cleaned or replaced--these will have accelorated decay.

Personally I don't think you will do as well on the "deal" as buying a non salvage boat. One could not tell from the document that the boat was salvaged. I just got lucky when trying to find the chain of custody when first documenting the boat--I was able to find the first buyer. He had moved, but still lived in a town near where he did when the boat was purchased---and he was the person who sunk the boat. The boat had been state registered. That was canceled when the boat was salvaged. The person I purchased the boat from was running it (illegelly) with dealer's tags.

Nordhavn's have historically held their value--but I don't think a salvaged Nordhavn would go up in value. There is too tight a Nordhavn's owner's group--and even 10 years from now, there will be someone who will remember that the boat had been salvaged.

Now...I know of a really good...older cheap boat...but not a Nordhavn....
 
There are an almost limitless number of problems stemming from salt water immersion. It would be virtually impossible to wash salt from every nook and cranny. That salt will absorb water from the air and cause corrosion, rot and galvanism. Simply replacing every mechanical system will not be enough. Wood everywhere is salt impregnated the problems are immense IMO. Those problems wouldn’t matter much to someone going to use the boat for commercial fishing or other dirty work but in yacht service I would run quickly. In today’s market there are many good values on boats in good shape why buy trouble?
Perhaps your think insurance companies that total sunk boats as a matter of course are being especially generous but I don’t.
 
I know that boat. It sat on the market for a long time. I even sat in its slip while it was out for a round of repairs. We even discussed it once in the past on the board here, though I don't recall who was looking at it. For those who have not seen it, let me say this. You would never know by looking that it sunk. She's beautiful.

But....from memory, it seems that the answers on what was done with the wiring were never directly answered. My memory leaves the impression that the terminal ends were cut off and replaced, but the wiring itself was not. If so, and you can not do the wiring yourself (and there is a ton), that boat is going to give problems.
 
Ghost, according to the broker, all wiring was replaced for any new components that were installed but, you are correct, for other wire runs just the ends were replaced. But the broker said, and it made sense to me, that the wiring between the ends that is covered with insulation does not need to be replaced as no salt water would have contacted the metal strands. However, the broker said he thinks there are some wiring runs that may not have been replaced so those would have to be examined on survey.

Also, a lot more work has been done on the boat since you last saw it and after it was sold last summer. And the boat does look very good; there is no way you would guess that it had sunk.

But, I appreciate all of the comments here and have no current plans to pursue the boat as I have other boats that I am more interested in. But, if those boats don’t work out, I might consider a very low ball offer that would give me extra funds to make the remainder of the necessary repairs.
 
Ride, engines, looks, quality all mean nothing against one word that every boat must have above all else, RELIABILITY. Nothing sunk will ever be reliable unless it was stripped down to it's hull. Run>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
I am among those who are advising you not to pursue this boat at any price.

If you owned a boatyard and employed the knowledgeable personnel, and if you had the tools, and if you could apply the technology, then you might have a long-term fighting chance.

However, by your own words, "I have the time but not the mechanical skills and expertise", you are not equipped to deal with the issues that will arise because it really will never end. Never.

By the way, the story of the sinking will stay with the boat no matter how far in the future you project your (possible) ownership, and there are very few buyers of sunken boats unless there is the opportunity for a "deal".

And isn't that what you'd be looking for if you chose to pursue this boat?
 
Harlen, something doesn't make sense to me in the original post. you say the boat ran aground on a reef, no hull damage then sunk when the tide came up because the ports were left open. How does that happen with no hull damage? If there was no hull damage, why didn't the boat re-float when the tide came up???
 
Greg, while the hull obviously would have had some abrasion, it was not breeched or seriously damaged by the impact. The scenario as I envision it from what the broker told me is that they ran aground at low tide, left the boat, the tide went lower and the boat tipped onto one side and then, as the tide rose, water flowed into the boat through the open port holes too fast to allow it to float. The real question is why the crew left the boat with the ports open as the boat would have otherwise simply righted itself with relatively minor consequences.

The story also is that the boat was being delivered by the crew but I don’t know if this was its initial delivery. It is a 2002 model and the mishap occurred in 2004.

Maybe there is a BoaterEd member from this region who knows more of the story.
 
Harlen, I once installed electric downriggers and ran out of heat shring for the ends and just put regular terminals on them. After one season I got around to put decent ends on the wiring. Clipping off the ends, I found corrosion in the wire. I kept clipping and kept finding corrosion. Eight foot into the wire, I finally got to no corrosion. This was not a wire that had ever been submerged, just splashed. The moisture and corrosion will wick up the wire strands without any problem.

The wiring in that boat will not lead a full life. Check now to see if it is even accessible, or whether you will have to tear up half the boat to get to it.

bp
 
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