Buying a recent survey from previous owner

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Ductboy

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I am looking at a boat that had a recent survey by a perspective buyer. Deal fell through, and I would like to get my hands on the survey to see what was found. If everything checks out, I would go ahead and hire my own surveyor to protect my interests.

Is it ethical for a surveyor to disclose information about a past survey for another party?

What about the broker? If they were given the survey, can they divulge that information? Would they be obligated to disclose what issues were brought to light in the previous buyers survey?

Thanks
Dan
 
I have purchased (at a reduced price) or been given the survey by people who pulled out of a deal. I don't think that it would be ethical for a surveyor to give or sell to you a survey which was done for another client.

Don't trust the seller or broker to give the reason for pulling out. I was told it was for "financial reasons"--it was because of a bad survey in one boat.
 
Bob-

Thanks for advice. This is a really interesting situation, which I am sure if I start blabbing about prematurly, will go away. Once the deal is done or 'unreversable' lets say, I will discuss it more.

Thanks
Dan
 
Ductboy, The survey belongs to the person who payed to have it done. If you want to get a copy of it, call that person and see if they will either, sell or give you a copy for free. The surveyor or broker should never consider giving information in reguards to a survey with out there clients permission.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Al_Prisco

Ductboy, The survey belongs to the person who payed to have it done. If you want to get a copy of it, call that person and see if they will either, sell or give you a copy for free. The surveyor or broker should never consider giving information in reguards to a survey with out there clients permission.

Click to expand...


Hate to disappoint you but the survey may not belong to the person who payed to have it done. The use of the survey is always bound to the terms and conditions stated in the signed contract between the parties. So read the contract. -- Fred
 
petesl,

The owner of that survey has the right to do whatever they wish with it. The surveyor has no right to share information with anyone other then his client, unless told otherwise.

Fred, I do agree, there are times when things get moved around on us surveyors. Hope all is well down Florida way. Its dam snowing here.
 
If the broker is aware of "major" problems from a past survey, is it not ethical for him to disclose them to a new potential buyer?
 
I recived an e-mail from Fred Moore today in relations to this topic. I must say he makes very good points in relation to a Boat Suvery Agreement or Contract included in with a survey report. If the client signs documentation that gives the surveyor rights as to how the report can be used. This will compromise the rights of the clients freedom to do what ever he/she wishs with the report. So to all of you, watch what you sign..

Fred, Thanks for your insite!
 
quote:
Originally posted by Arnold

If the broker is aware of "major" problems from a past survey, is it not ethical for him to disclose them to a new potential buyer?

Click to expand...


you used the term broker and ethical in the same sentence.. and now another survey story. I surveyed a Luhrs with some bad deck damage found. The buyer backed out of the deal. When the broker found out I was again surveying the same boat for another client 4 months later he went so far as to tell my customer it was unethical for me to survey the same boat again, and highly suggested that they get another surveyor. During the next survey the same damage was still there, And no he did not disclose the damage he knew about. Again the customer backed out. I later asked the broker about his comments. His statement was just because you told someone else about the problem does not mean I need to disclose it. They need to read my disclosure in my contract which says its up to the owner to disclose known defects. Most things surveyors say are not true, all surveyors do is get in my way.. Fred
 
quote:
Originally posted by Al_Prisco

I recived an e-mail from Fred Moore today in relations to this topic. I must say he makes very good points in relation to a Boat Suvery Agreement or Contract included in with a survey report. If the client signs documentation that gives the surveyor rights as to how the report can be used. This will compromise the rights of the clients freedom to do what ever he/she wishs with the report. So to all of you, watch what you sign..

Fred, Thanks for your insite!

Click to expand...


I will elaborate... its all about copyright, if the surveyor retains copyrights in the contract then its up to the surveyor to determine who they release rights to. I always retain rights but release them to my customer ONLY in the same contract. I specifically release right to use the report in purchasing, financing, insurance binding or insurance claims and for personal use. Some may say why. For one thing you are paying me to survey the boat and tell you what is wrong, you are not paying me for a document you can freely use for what ever purpose you want, today, tomorrow or 50 years into the future. There is a huge difference (read on).

About 10 years ago a greedy seller got some poor sucker to agree in writing they would purchase a boat for 225k (Ft Lauderdale). They hired a surveyor who valued the boat at 90k. They backed out of the contract. BTW this customer did not have outs in his contract because of defects found during a survey. So what happens next. The seller then sues the surveyor. You may ask what his grounds were. He claims he has been damaged by a loss of 135k because the surveyor interfered in his legal and binding contract. It was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. I happen to know it was for around 70k.

This is the type of liability problems surveyors face each and every day. Very seldom do we get sued for our clients stupidity. And second we never know what legal contracts our customer has signed, or to put it simply.. how stupid they were. But had the surveyor in this case retained copyright he would have the ability to take action against his client for backing out of a legal contract he signed, why because he provided the survey to his seller.

Another problem we face here in Florida is that many brokers are now requiring in their contract that if they back out because of defects found during the survey they must provide the original survey to the broker. This happened to me..

In this case the purchase price was 110k the survey was 97k, they backed out. Now the broker is advertising "recent survey available, see this boat is valued at 97k by Fred Moore a reputable surveyor". Surveyors never want to be involved in the sale process for a broker. Not only that but anything could have happened after the survey. Engines could have been trashed, it could have sunk and re-floated.. I mean tons of things outside of our control. However a quick note from the attorney notifying the broker he was violating copyright stopped it.

So do I really care how my reports are used. Absolutely.. I want them to be used by my customer. I don't what them published, or referenced by unscrupulous brokers to promote his business.

I have many customers who survey before a sale and use the report to disclose defects. I have absolutely no problem with this. its actually the fastest way to sell a vessel. However if I find they are using the report to advertise using my name I will stop it. or use the report to imply the value of the vessel by an independent party I will stop it. I will not be involved in any sale process.

Surveyors being involved in the sale is a huge conflict of interest (my opinion). An example would be all of the surveyors who are involved in boatcheck.com. The do a very quick cursory look for 100 bucks fill out a checklist and then boatcheck says.. recent high quality survey report available, when they provide it for 35 bucks it has the surveyors name and his org all over it.. Along with recommendations to use this surveyor if they purchase the boat. Brokers are the only ones who advertise by boatcheck. My opinion is that in all cases like this the surveyor has become a broker and his credibility is now trashed...

I totally agree with Al watch what you sign. But more importantly understand what you sign and why some terms may be in the contract. Its not always about you, sometimes its to protect the surveyor from others... Fred
 
Al
You are wrong. There are court cases to back it up. Check it out.
 
Just when I think I've read some worthwhile comments provided by knowledgable, credentialed and experienced contributors here comes someone contridicting with "there are court cases". I suppose there are court cases, that is what courts are for. Can we be a tad more specific when taking a 180 degree opposite position. "You are wrong" isn't very helpful. Thanks.
 
petesl, Please elaborate on your comments..

Bliss, Thanks for the nice comments. Hopefully we can clear this up..
 
Sorry for the delay-

It did not work out, so I can speak freely without worry of screwing up the deal.

The boat was a 1998 42' Little Harbor Whisperjet, with triple 370 Cummins. it was a bit of an oddball boat as Whisperjets go, sort of a factory test boat when it was originally built in 98. The boat has sat at the Marlow yard for several years now. As it was told to me, the owner was an enourmously wealthy individual from Scotland who used to fly in, use the boat in the Keys for a month each year and then call the yard to come and get it.

Cosmetically it was good, mechanically it was not bad, but needed some maintenance.

I flew down to see the boat in May of '06, but still owned my current boat so I did not move on it. It was a good deal at that point. I had heard that the boat sold during the summer of '07, but spoke to one of Marlows brokers recently and was told the buyer had disappeared and never closed on the boat. Marlow gave him until Dec. 21st to make good on the deal or he would loose his deposit plus whatever work they had done to bring adress issues brought up by the survey. I called at 4:30 on the 21st and found out that the buyer closed on it on the 20th.

Had the buyer not shown up, it would have been an unbelieveable deal. I have since accepted an offer on my boat and plan on doing some shopping up north this spring.

Dan
 
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