Deal Reached on San Joaquin River Legislation

Comfortably Numb, you've got much of it right, but a true comparison would be to compare the Ag rates to the wholesale rates the water districts pay before adding the costs of treating, storing, and delivering water to residential areas. Even at the wholesale level, water for Ag is many times cheaper than water for urban use, and when you consider the even higher costs of new water supplies (such as the peripheral canal) it gets even cheaper to just buy out the Ag users and "restore" the Central Valley to nature.

A different consideration is involved with your "per residence" figures--some areas of the US don't suffer from water shortages,and as such, few, if any, conservation measures are necessary in average years. Some enviros and others want to set a "uniform" approach across the US regardless of local water shortage or surplus, but to me that makes as much sense as saying that someone in Minnesota should use no more natural gas for heating than someone in San Diego....

BTG
 
What do folks think of the idea of the nation creating a "water grid" similar to the electricity grid? Thus areas of the country with lots of water could sell water to dry/drought areas wherever they may be. It would extremely expensive to build, but wasn't the electric grid very expensive to?
 
In Nevada I pay a flat rate of $65, and we have all kinds of restrictions - water on your two days each week, conserve, replace lawns - its on the TV constantly, and we live at the foot of the Sierras. We have a water shortage too, very real to us. It is interesting to see the difference in what is paid by Ag - that really is cheap water! It would be interesting to understand how the differend crops effect the usage. Current Toy, do you have any input on what kinds of crops require more or less water?
Flutter - I think a water grid would be way too expensive - moving power is cheap by comparison. Getting water up hills is hard, electricity does not care. Good thought!
Jim
 
quote:
Originally posted by Comfortably Numb

It would be interesting to understand how the differend crops effect the usage.
Jim

Click to expand...

Great question. Rice must use a lot, as they have to flood the fields. I've heard cotton is a thirsty crop.

No one wants farming to stop, LOL. But I think we have to evaluate these large, subsidized corporate farms, that export thier crop, and could not turn a profit w/o subsidized water...

I'll check the web on the 1st issue, very curious now.
 
I got a notice from Contra Costa Water District this week about a potential water rate increase to $2.6345 per 100 cu ft (748 gallons) that converts to $1150 per acre-feet; now that is treated water but in this case the water treatment is simple filtration, clorination and testing. There is also a daily service charge increase to $0.5422 for a 5/8" meter. If Agriculture is getting water at $30 per acre-feet they are getting a great deal compared to residential. Their intakes are further upstream and less vulnerable to saltwater intrusion than CCWD's.
 
Biggest water consuming crop in CA is alphalpha. Fruit trees take a lot. Safflower is low water use. Crops like corn and hay fall in the middle. White long grain rice falls in the middle because flood water irrigation goes back into the river or recharges ground water. Brown rice uses much less water. All rice crops have big environmental benefits for the Sacramento Valley because the flooding mimics natural flood plains along the river system. Rice crops are planned to support wildfowl that travel the flyway.

If you compare meat production per serving (beef, chicken, dairy, etc.) then you get some very scary water usage tens of time worse than any veggie crop alone.

I'm not ready to give up the BBQ, yet.

Finding specific water usage comparisons by crop is not for amateurs. Water usage must include evapotranspiration factors (how much water is lost to evaporation) and that varies by how far the water has to travel before it is used for the crop, they way the crop is irrigated, soil type and local climate.
 
We need to remember that Current Toy is not a large AgriCorp. He is a small "family farmer" trying to make a living by grow and selling crops. I think farms such as his deserves a water break. But the large AgiCorps do not!
 
Some interesting info. Current Toy, - I was in no way intending to step on your toes by asking that question, it's just that you are in a beter position to answer it. It would be good to understand how much of the Ag water is used for what type of crops, and understand if there is an option to grow some of the "more thirsty" ones in another area that might have more water available. Yzer - I had no idea rice was "efficient" as a crop - always figured that all that water was wastefull, but what you say makes a lot of sense - good input.
Jim
 
Here is some more info on CA rice. No ag crop has worked longer to reduce water usage than Sacramento Valley rice. This info comes from the rice growers themselves so you can expect some bias, but their research is science based with a longtime relationship with the UC system.

http://www.calrice.org/a_balance_sheet/chap2.htm

They way CA water gets used in food production can surprise you.

fig_2-11-1-1.jpg
 
I got a notice in the mail last night about a CCWD public hearing to discuss a penalty rate of $3.50 per 100 cu ft effective 1 May 2009 for people who do not conserve.
 
A good water saver... At my plant we build microcircuits - a very similar process to making semiconductors. For the past 8 months we have been working on a zero-discharge system and it is finally on line - we plugged all of our drains last week. The system recovers and re-purifies (to about 17 meg-ohm) 90+% of the water we use every day, and the remainder is treated to bring the PH to a reasonable level, and then evaporated. Steam leaves, and the bad stuff is left as solid, and there is very little of it. Yesterday we used only 40 gallons of make-up water for the whole day - this is for a factory of nearly 40 people with lots of wet processing. 3 years ago we used well over 1000 gallons a day. The guys did a great job - I'm really proud of them! Amazing what can be done when one tries!
Jim
 
That is a GREAT story Jim. You have every right to be proud. I hope more and more companies follow your company's example......
 
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