Gasket Maker For New Exhaust Manifolds and Risers

Michael Clemensen

Michael Clemensen

Member
Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
RO Number
2006
Messages
359
Back in the day, GVP recommended a thin coat of Permatex Ultra black on the exhaust and exhaust to riser gaskets. I was planning on following this recommendation but came across another Permatex product that MAYBE even better. It's called Permatex Ultra Copper and is good to 700* F. Anyone ever used this and have first hand knowledge? This product may NOT have been around when GVP recommended Ultra Black.
Ideas?
 
Did you use it? I bought some of it too last week and used it on the manifolds. My gaskets and blocker plates did not make it here for the weekend, so my projects is still going.... dammit.
 
I use the OEM gaskets and NO other sealers. In the past I did use Ultra Black but it stopped the OEM gaskets from bonding to the metal so no more sealer. I have been happy with the results so why fix what ain't broke.
 
The type of sealer (or none) might depend on the composition of the gaskets...?

MerC OEM gaskets have been a silvery graphite-looking stuff for awhile now, and after Sierra took over OSCO, they started supplying gaskets that look like the MerC ones. They seem to "cement" themselves.

But I remember one of the major manifold makers sending what I'll call "paper" gaskets (apparently some fiber material) and recommending no sealant. Then we learned the idea was that IF there were leaks, we'd see the rust running down. And most us used Permatex Aviation like Alien suggests. Or Permatex Black like GVP suggested.
 
Still in the disassembly mode. Yesterday removed the risers, today removed the exhaust manifolds. Purchased a "stud removal tool" and removed the 10 studs to allow complete scraping of the exhaust ports on the head. The tool worked fair, it removed the stud but then I couldn't release the cam action by hand, had to put it in my new Wilton vise and use a quick clockwise snap of the 1/2" air tool to unload the cam. 10 trips down and the up again on the 6' ladder, PITA! I did purchase the Ultra copper but haven't decided to use it. I did have 2-3 exhaust ports leaking gasses and I also "chased" the 16 threads in the heads. I have OEM Volvo Penta gaskets for both the exhaust and risers. They are a graphite silver. If there is no rain delay tomorrow I'll start reassembly. Going to look in the OEM manuals for torque specs and to see what the book says on sealant.
 
Sand all the paint off any new component mating surfaces. You can apply a thin layer...(very thin) along with the gaskets. I use Ultra Black.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Clemensen

Still in the disassembly mode. Yesterday removed the risers, today removed the exhaust manifolds. Purchased a "stud removal tool" and removed the 10 studs to allow complete scraping of the exhaust ports on the head. The tool worked fair, it removed the stud but then I couldn't release the cam action by hand, had to put it in my new Wilton vise and use a quick clockwise snap of the 1/2" air tool to unload the cam. 10 trips down and the up again on the 6' ladder, PITA! I did purchase the Ultra copper but haven't decided to use it. I did have 2-3 exhaust ports leaking gasses and I also "chased" the 16 threads in the heads. I have OEM Volvo Penta gaskets for both the exhaust and risers. They are a graphite silver. If there is no rain delay tomorrow I'll start reassembly. Going to look in the OEM manuals for torque specs and to see what the book says on sealant.

Click to expand...


Cheap and easy way to remove studs is with a double nut:
Get two hex head nuts.
Thread them on the stud.
Lock them together with two wrenches.
Put a wrench on the lower of the two locked together nuts and thread the stud out.
Once out, use two wrenches to unlock the two nuts and remove them from the stud.
 
The manufacturers have been having trouble with the manifold/riser gasket for decades now. Using many different materials with different instructions. Use the graphite gasket, with or without silicone, I use a slight smear of ultra black but have used used it 'dry' with good results but the mating surface should be smoothed as described. The graphite gasket has been made for over 20 years but have not been made available to the general public during all that time.
 
Rain Delay. Read the OEM manual, going to sparsely use the higher temp Ultra copper on both sides of each gasket. All 1/8" thick black paint is removed, and both flanges on the exhaust to riser connection have been gone over with files to ensure a flat surface. Sprayed WD40 on all bare surfaces to prevent rust, will wipe with acetone prior to the application of the ultra copper. Awaiting clear weather to continue. Stopped by the Launch ramps, guys are catching Salmon while I'm on sitting on the trailer :(
Was going to double nut for removal but these are 4.5" long and I felt more comfortable with the stud removal tool close to the end of the course thread in the head vs. the fine thread at the end of the stud with double nuts.
 
Had a productive day, new manifolds and risers are installed. Going to op-test on the next clear day allow the ultra copper to cure for at least 24 hrs.
 
I personally would caution against using anything with copper around cooling passages. You are setting up an iron-copper battery if liquid comes in contact with the sealant and the iron. Don't know if the the joint will fail before the manifolds need replacing but it will fail faster once the battery is set up.
 
GeeBee thanks for the insight. After reading the TDS and SDS it doesn't appear to actually have any copper listed in the mixture. Iron Oxide appears to be used to achieve the copper color. My gut feeling is the copper name is referring to the color i.e. Ultra Black, Ultra Blue and Ultra Gray. Thanks
 
I will be interested to hear how your project came out. Mine did not go very well, had a lot of trouble sealing the water. Getting drips around the bolts of both the long studs coming out of the manifold to risers, and some drips on the bolts of the elbow to risers.
Went to the local marine service shop yesterday and got more gasket and some old school evinrude/Johnson sealant the guy there recommended. Took apart the manifold to riser seam, two new gaskets, rechecked the surfaces with a straight edge, different sealant, cleaned, reinstalled, still dripping slowly from one or two of the studs. Very frustrating.
Went for a short ride and anchored last night, will go back tomorrow and re torque bolts, then recheck. Not really sure yet what my next plan is if still dripping.
 
Planning on filling it with water this morning and running it off the garden hose. Will be checking for leaks then to clean the deck and reassemble the aft bulkhead and cushions. Will let you know.
 
rb2@gr5tVT: This is really frustrating. I can feel it 1250 miles away!

Did you start a BE thread on your project?

Whose Products are you using? Manifolds? Risers? Gaskets?

Small or Big Block?

Our SBC MerC is RWC and it uses 3" Spacers between Manifold and Riser (aka Elbow or Riser/Elbow) so probably a lot different.

If yours is FWC, is the leak, Raw Water or Closed System Coolant?

If it's only gonna "drip" fresh water and you know that's all... This isn't a fix, but Go Boating Today!
 
Filled it up with tap water, ran it on muffs until it reached 160 degrees. Timed it then ran it again. So far no leaks but remember I'm raw water cooled, ZERO pressure in the cooling system unlike your "FRESH" water cooled engine. Will light it off again after I finish mowing the lawn.
 
Cleaned the deck, installed the bulkhead, back cushions and three batteries. Will light it off again prior to splashing and check for leaks.
 
Nice job on your install, no leaks sounds really good.
I am pleased to report that my install job is done and leak tight. Retorqued all the bolts this morning, started up and ran to temp, no leaks seen! Kept running for a while and looked over and over, everything is tight, risers and manifolds staying cool to the touch. What a relief.
Now I have to decide about doing the other engine, not too excited to start it right now...
 
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