High Tide

There was recent testimony from local scientists that the new inlet has nothing to do with the higher than normal tides. He attributed it to the 7 or 8 major storms in the north atlantic this season and not the inlet.

BTW, if it is the inlet, someone with the knowledge could calculate the volumes going in and out of the bay and determine if the water coming in were greater in total than before.
 
quote:
Originally posted by signature27

I walked to old inlet this past saturday, and in my opinion they should leave it open. the Bay is clear, yes you can actually see the bottom, not just green and brown water like the past 10 years. secondly, has anyone lobbying to close the inlet actually walked fire island from Smiths point to the inlet? there are NO DUNES. if you close the inlet at old inlet, the next storm will just open a new inlet somewhere else. before a project can begin to close the inlet, the dunes would have to be rebuilt otherwies it's pointless. you can stand at the edge of the ocean, and see Bellport with no dunes blocking your line of sight.
in my opinion, the money would be much better spent raising the bulkheads and backfilling them along the areas that are flooding, and not waisted filling in an inlet that will reopen again.
I feel very bad for the people along the shore that are dealing with water coming into their houses, but no one forced you to buy a house on the water, and for years I have heard that sea levels will rise due to the melting ice caps.
Hypothetically speaking if the inlet is closed, and the water levels do not lower, whats the next step?

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Hi Brian,

The bay this time of year is always clear. The algae that makes the bay cloudy in the summer has been enhanced for the last thirty years by fertilizer running off peoples lawns into the storm drains and into the bay and sound. You would not believe how far away some street drains are that end up in the bay.
You are right about nature opening and closing the old inlet or pikes inlet, but when nature tries to close fire island inlet, immediately we want it dredged. So lets agree to disagree as to where we let nature take its course or intercede.
You are also correct that the dunes need to be replenished. If we get another storm like sandy the flooding could go as far as sunrise hwy in some places. The barrier beach doesn't just protect the people that live ON the water, but tens of thousands of homes and businesses that are near the bay.
I'm no scientist, but I do understand tides. If there is a normal flow of tides and it is six foot rise and fall at the inlet and less than two foot in Lindenhurst, I think the inlets keep some water out. If a storm surges the ocean higher, I think the inlets still keep some water out. If there is a way for the bay to get more water via more inlets, it has to lead higher tides in the bay.
As far as what if closing the inlet doesn't work. It is the only difference from before the storm and after the storm. The tens of thousands of people that live and work south of sunrise hwy deserve to know.

Just Saying

Billy K.

P.S. A lot of the people who live near the bay have been there for far longer than we have heard about global warming.
 
The other known difference is the Fire island inlet. It is now wider, straighter and deeper than ever before.
Its over a mile wide.If anything the bigger Fire island inlet would have more of an affect on Tides in West Islip than a 350ft wide inlet 20 miles away. I used to think it was the new inlet causing the additional flooding. I have now changed my stance. The tides have been higher and lower this year from Virginia to Massachusetts. Barnagat Bay in jersey is also seeing higher and lower tides and they do not have a breach.

The breaches are always going to happen. Before Robert Moses started ocean parkway project there were additional inlets all over. I would rather them spend that money on the mainland. Raise roads, raise homes. Make the mainland neighborhoods stronger and higher, maybe not able to withstand a Sandy but at-least able to withstand the tides of an Irene.

Just looking at my own photos 2009 was weird too. Street flooding from winter through summer. No Sandy then and no breach either. I just hope it gets a little bit back to normal when the water warms up.
 
I have boated out of East Rockaway inlet for a number of years. These days I drive over the Atlantic Beach Bridge almost every day. The water levels have been extreme this winter and the inlet is the same as it always has been. Last week, the marsh was almost completely covered and the water looked close to the top of some of the fixed private docks. On the flip side, I have never seen it so low this winter. If I still had the Viking in Lawrence, I would not have been leaving the dock to go up Bannister Creek at low tide and I never was concerned about tides there.
 
How much of the rise is caused by the polar ice melt?
Keep in mind, water levels are rising.
Stony Brook study showed old inlet was not having a big effect.
 
Billy K, I respect your opinion, and i am only trying to convey what i have witnessed since the storm. I have been on the water every winter, and have never seen the water like it is now.. i agree that it does get a little clearer in the winter months. the water in bellport bay is clear right now.. I have not seen it like that for the last 10 years. even in the winter. I definetly think something needs to be done to rebuild the dunes or else every minor storm will have a major impact. my opinion is that they need to line this inlet with stone now to stop it from getting any bigger than it is, and raise the seawalls along the south shore of long island. but like i said, it's just my opinion. also, it's Keith, not Brian.. LOL
 
I just came back from the fl keys. In places the road is level with the gulf. All new houses are on stilts. Areas that are prone to flooding are no longer built on. When the main road floods people just stay in. The locals have it as a way of life. I think our way of thinking needs to change. We cant fight mother nature. She will win every time . U can throw all the money u want it .... its fruitless in the long run .

Rob
 
Keith, Sorry I don't know where I got Brian from.

I guess we will have to wait and see if we are in an abnormal weather pattern or the new norm. I agree that people who live at lower elevations need to rethink about how they live and build. Lower elevations are not only next to the shore line, there are a lot more at risk then we know.

Billy K.
 
Guys ,
I spoke to JJ from Watch hill. HE said the marina is good to go BUT the tides are 8" higher then normal and 8" lower then normal. This is a huge problem in my opinion for the entrance Channel. Nothing large has gone in yet so I guess we will have to wait and see. He did say the waters clearer then its ever been and u can actually see the bottom They fished out a bunch of lawn chairs from previous years that have collected in the middle of the marina.

Rob
 
Thanks for the update Rob. Sounds like timing the tide right will be even more important than before. Next time you speak to him ask if the tide times match the tide charts. They may be off as the water flowing from the breach which is much closer to WH than the inlet is probably changing the timing also.

John
 
I reposted the watch hill stuff under its own thread so it gets seen. Im waiting for an answer john.

Rob
 
Sitting in the doctors office this morning. They have News 12 playing. Editorial comes on about the breach. Didn't catch the guys name, but he claimed the big tide changes since the storm have nothing to do with the breach. They are happening all along the Northeast coast. His position was closing the breach would be a waste of money and that it will only open up again.
He also said spending millions to move sand around after storms is a waste of money and that they should be better preparing waterfront communities for these inevitable storms.
 
Was it a young guy with a beard? May have been carl lobue from Nature Conservancy. He gets quoted a lot. I emailed him some time back to refute what he was saying. He emailed right back. He even came and spoke to our community group. He has since started sending me tables comparing daily high and low tides from virginia,bellport and woods hole mass. Its amazing but they all line right up. If woods hole was 2ft higher than normal,we were too.changed my mind.

Bellport.com has a section about the breach and they post the tables there too. Interesting stuff.
 
quote:
Originally posted by zane

Was it a young guy with a beard? May have been carl lobue from Nature Conservancy. He gets quoted a lot. I emailed him some time back to refute what he was saying. He emailed right back. He even came and spoke to our community group. He has since started sending me tables comparing daily high and low tides from virginia,bellport and woods hole mass. Its amazing but they all line right up. If woods hole was 2ft higher than normal,we were too.changed my mind.

Bellport.com has a section about the breach and they post the tables there too. Interesting stuff.

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That sounds like the same guy. I'm not sure I completely buy what he is saying because of the big changes in tides since the storm, but it was interesting anyway. Still, I can't help but think that the severe beach erosion in the areas he was referring to along the east coast as a result of the storm are at least partially responsible for the abnormal tides.
I'm sure that the storm drains are probably clogged with a lot of crap too (as he pointed out)from all the stuff that has been in the streets, and that may account for some of the flood waters remaining after a high tide, but I'm not sure what that would have to do with some of the abnormal low tides that we've had.
"From the Nature Conservancy" kind of sums up where he is coming from.
 
quote:
Originally posted by mintregila

There was recent testimony from local scientists that the new inlet has nothing to do with the higher than normal tides. He attributed it to the 7 or 8 major storms in the north atlantic this season and not the inlet.

BTW, if it is the inlet, someone with the knowledge could calculate the volumes going in and out of the bay and determine if the water coming in were greater in total than before.

Click to expand...


Were they those French scientists that recently found that woman that wear bras do damage to their breasts? If so, then they must be right :)
 
http://news.yahoo.com/encroaching-sea-already-threat-caribbean-185955822.html I saw this atricle today, and immediatly thought that the problem in the caribean must be due to the new inlet formed on fire island. forget about science. listen to the politicians, they always have our best interests in mind dont they?
 
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