Holding tank considerations

tr_guy79

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
RO Number
10887
Messages
73
The '32 that I just bought does not have a holding tank. It is a direct discharge through the hull.

I obviously will need to add a holding tank, but I have never had a boat with, or have any idea what I need to take into consideration when installing.

A few things I am not sure about.
-What size. The biggest I can fit? 30gal?
-Where should the pump out be on the boat
-Where should the tank be in relation ship to the head?
-Can I use the current fixtures, and just move the outlet from the hull to a tank?

Any help or guidance would be great...

-Shane
 
The layout of your boat and the way you use it will play a big part in determinig the size of your tank.

We normally pump out when we refuel so having a tank with enough capacity to last untill then is nice. How many people you have on board typically and how often you refuel will affect how big a tank you want. Most pumpouts are on the gunwhale, locate yours so it is convenient to access.

If possible, try to balance the load. If you have all your batteries and the water heater on the port side can you put the waste tank on the starboard side to help balance and prevent or correct a list? Without knowing your layout in the engine room it is tough to say where a convenient place to put it is. Keep in mind that a 30 gallon tank will add approx. 200 lbs. when full.
 
I am sure Vic will chime in eventually. Isn't he on the road now? Anyhow, the type of boat will be helpful. Pix of the ER are even better. If I had your situation and I had the money, I would opt for the hold and treat or other electric treatment system. No holding tank necessary and no pumpouts. Folks I know that have them say they are the one of the best boating improvement investments they ever made and well worth the cost.

Good luck.
 
Shane, based on your home port listing, my guess is that you'll be doing the bulk of your boating on the upper Chesapeake, Susquehanna, Del./Ches. Canal and possibly Delaware Bay, without spending much if any, time in the ocean. As you will be essentially in fresh and brackish water, I can't recommend an Electro-scan or a Hold N' Treat system with an Electro-scan, as there won't be enough salt in the water to support the treatment system.

That leaves a Hold N' Treat system using a Purasan (talk to Billy III or Mixman, who post here regularly), or a conventional holding tank. On a 32 foot boat, you don't have a whole lot of available space to mount anything along that line. My suggestion would be, if you're going to add a holding tank, to get the biggest one you can fit comfortably on the boat.

A general rule of thumb for holding tank capacity is 4 gallons per person per day. This is figuring a little "fat" and you may not actually need that much tank capacity. It basically comes down to how the boat will be used, the availability of nearby pumpout stations, how many people will be on board at any given time, and how long you expect to be out at a time.

In order to keep odors to a minimum, it isn't recommended to go much over two weeks between pumpouts, and less if possible, especially in the summertime.

If the existing head is of the pump type, either manual or electric, and is in good condition, it may be able to be retained. Distance between the head and the holding tank (length of plumbing run) should be kept to 10 feet or less. The pumpout is via a deck fitting, similar to a fuel fill fitting. The tank must have, at a minimum, an "in", an "out" and a vent line. The vent is run through the hull to a through-hull fitting, usually high on the side of the hull, up near the toe rail. The bigger the diameter of the vent line, the better. The tank must vent well in both directions - air that is contained in the tank must be able to get out, as the tank fills. Air must also be able to come into the tank when it is being pumped out, or it won't pump out.

Where to install the tank? Common spots are under a bunk, settee, or under the vee berth. Keep in mind that you must be able to run your plumbing lines from the head to the tank, and from the tank to the deck pumpout. You must also be able to run the vent line to a through-hull fitting, enabling it to vent outside the boat. If the tank will be mounted under the vee berth area, you should consider running two vent lines, if possible, exiting the boat on opposite sides of the bow. This will give you good cross-ventilation of the tank, helping to keep odors to a minimum.

Normal hose size is 1 1/2" I.D. for the line between head and tank, and from tank to deck pumpout fitting. For the tank vent lines, I recommend no smaller than 3/4" I.D. and larger if possible. The sewage entry to the tank (from the toilet) is on top or high on one of the sides of the tank. The pumpout fitting is on bottom of the tank or low on one of the sides of the tank.

Some people prefer to have the tank pumped out from the top, rather than the bottom. This requires that a "dip tube" be run down from the top, to just short of the bottom of the tank, enabling the pumpout to draw from the top of the tank. The advantage to doing it this way is that you will not have sewage laying in the pumpout hose all the time, eventually permeating the hose and stinking up the boat. If you choose to do that, you'll need at least 4" of clearance above the top of the tank, for the necessary fittings - and the dip tube fitting will have to be specified when you order the tank.

For the tank, I strongly urge that you stay away from a metal tank, and go strictly with high density polyethylene. The salts and acids in urine will eat holes in any metal tank over time. Poly tanks, if they're kept out of the sun, and are not damaged by the occupants of the boat, will last virtually forever.

That should be enough to ruminate on for the moment. More questions will come up over time, and we can deal with them as they come up, rather than me writing a complete novella now.
 
So would I be correct in assuming that the toilet base, needs to be higher than the top of the holding tank? I am tempted to pull up the floor in the head this weekend and see if I can fit a tank under there.
 
Ideally, but not necessarily. If the toilet has the ability to pump uphill, you can have the top of the tank higher than the toilet - it's done quite often.
 
If the joker valve fails, won't it back drain into, and possibly overflow the toilet?
 
Our tank entry is on top and on the bottom we have a Y-valve. One side to the pump out
and the other side to a macerator pump with an on/off key switch.
I think out system was not legal, so I asked the boat yard to give me an idea of how
to get legal. Afterwards, I asked on here and found out that I may not be legal, depending
on the USCG inspector. So, I removed the thru hull handle just to be sure.
I already had a tank, so if I was going to re-do it, I changed out all the hoses also.
The Jabsco Macerator pump was $123.
Two position key switch was $30.
Fuse block was $45.
18 ft. of 12/2 wire was $26.
30 ft. of 1 1/2" sanitation hose was $115.
5 ft. of 1" sanitation hose was $13.
Other stuff including heat shrink connectors, hose barbs, reducing hex bushing,
SS screws and fender washers, SS hose clamps, fuses, ended up costing me a total
of $499.07 for all the parts.
The labor was free, minus the doctors bill because I have a bad back.
I am not sure what a tank and labor would cost, but if I had the room for a
treatment system, I would have installed one of those instead. They were on sale
at a pretty good price at BoatFix at the time I did my work, but no more room in
our boat.
 
Vic,
Can't Shane use an Electro-San if he adds salt? Friends of ours do that. They keep a container of salt next to the head with an appropriately measured cup so they can add salt with each flush.
 
I don't think it's a question of the joker valve failing. I had this arrangement, and it was never a 100% seal. If the boat bounced around, stuff would push back into the head. But it's only enough to drop the level in the hose back down to equilibrium, so it never overflowed. If your waste hose went continuously uphill, and was long, then a lot would come back in. But more likely is it will run flat for a ways and then go uphill right by the tank. Stuff from the tank won't flow back, because vacuum is broken at the tank inlet and there's no siphon action. Unless of course you overfill the tank. You don't want to use the top few inches, you want to keep it below the inlet fitting in this setup.

More of a concern is waste sitting in the hose all the time. It will permeate quickly unless you are constantly flushing the waste out with fresh water, which fills your tank quickly. And, how do you change out that hose without a huge mess, since it is always full of waste? I had to really think about removing mine, plugging the tank end, dropping that down, using the joker valve to kind of seal the other end and quickly lifting that up and then plugging that. Then dragging a big stinky slinky off the boat. Never again, a very unpleasant afternoon and evening. I relocated my tank to the centerline of the bilge, so everything runs downhill. It's a better arrangement all around. If you can do that I'd encourage it.
 
Mike, yes you are absolutely correct, he can use an Electro-scan if he adds salt to it. The problem is that a lot of people are lazy, and ignore the fact or don't understand the fact, that it has to be added with EVERY single flush of the toilet. What eventually happens in most cases is that they ruin the electrodes inside the unit from operating the system under low or no salt conditions, because they forgot to add salt, or decided to "let it go this time," which is oftentimes repeated over and over again. Then, when the electrodes fail, they begin bad-mouthing the product instead of bad-mouthing themselves for neglecting it. And I get warranty claims that I have to deny, which makes me appear to be the bad guy. If they operate it correctly each and every time, the electrodes will normally last a minimum of 3 years, often longer.

Ronp, everything you said is accurate; if the joker fails and a little discolored water comes back into the toilet, no big deal! Flush the toilet again, to clear it out. Most of the time, joker valves are self-cleaning from the water flow through them. If you replace them at regular intervals (every other year), you shouldn't ever have a problem. And as you noted, if you keep the tank pumped out before it is completely full, there's no chance for the tank contents to siphon back into the toilet bowl.

The big thing is that most people find the entire issue of the sanitation system to be distasteful (no pun intended) and they tend to ignore it as long as they possibly can. That's what usually leads to them having problems - willful neglect!
 
quote:

Originally posted by MikeeH

Vic,
Can't Shane use an Electro-San if he adds salt? Friends of ours do that. They keep a container of salt next to the head with an appropriately measured cup so they can add salt with each flush.






Sure can! We have an LectraSan on our boat with a serperate 2 gallon salt feed tank. Easy way to go in fresh water.
 
I would be careful with the LectraSan current draw is over 20 amps the older ElectraSan draws even more current. That is one reason why I went with a PuraSan it draws about 6 to 8 amps. I have my holding tank in the hall outside the head centered in the boat it is 36 gallons. I am also using the new Raritan Elegance fresh water flush head and you can program it to flush with less water than a VacuFlush however make sure by the end of the day or leaving the boat for a couple of days you run a decent half bowel of fresh water through the system to clear the hoses. I found freshwater heads have virtually no smell compared to rawwater heads (from critters that grow in the rim of the bowl). I also use the Hold-N-Treat system and pump controlling the PuraSan. After some playing with the wiring it is really the perfect system for me. As far as the type of holding tank bigger is best and I would only use Poly (plastic) thick tanks for everything from freshwater to waste. They are also easier to monitor with various systems that do not require a sensor be placed in the tank. No messy sensor to remove or clean when it gets muddy if you get my drift. I also can have the holding tank evacuated by a shore pumpout station. I am 100 percent satisfied with my current system, it was worth installing all the new equipment even though my VacuFlush was only 1.5 seasons old. The chopper on the Elegance and the adjustable water levels sold me on the combination. It is also nice to use a filter on your vent hose this eliminates odors outside the boat when you flush. I'm here if you need any assistance with this combination. Take care. Bill
 
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