Holding tank: hose and smell problem

C

capecodmoon

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
RO Number
30506
Messages
14
My boat is a 30 year old Chesapeake Bay Work Boat which has always been a "cruiser." There has been no re-design of the head/ holding tank area but the standard head (raw water in, black water to a holding tank), the white hose and the holding tank have been replaced(Head=2 years by me, hose=2-5 years and tank=5-7 years). The smell is almost overwhelming at times so I have cleaned at various times with a strong green cleaner, a bleach solution(not mixed with any other cleaner) and general cleaning. There is usually a short period (2-3 weeks) that is fine but it reverts back to its former smell.
There is alot of white hose with some sharp curves and while I believe that I have very carefully checked the hoses and the clamps and because it is such a small area and so difficult to get to, I probably have not done a good job.
While I do not look forward to it, the only solution I can see is to take it all apart and re-design and start over. Any input would be helpful. The holding tank is now 25 gallons so I am wondering if that might be overkill. Presently, I do not go on long trips so what would be a good size for local trips and not much use of the head? Also, the re-design means cutting/ripping up a great deal of the area where it is located. It is not a problem if the re-design looks as if it would truly work. Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts and references.
 
if the hoses and tanks are that recent, the problem is elsewhere. I bet on an air leak either on the vent line, or a fitting, or the tankwatch sender if equipped. When you flush, smelly air is forced out of the tank into the boat instead of going overboard thru the vent.

check that first. is the smell worst when you flush?
 
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll

What is the black water tank made of?
Bill

Click to expand...

The black water tank is an opaque plastic one with no name or any identifier on it. I have looked at it but done nothing with it.
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

if the hoses and tanks are that recent, the problem is elsewhere. I bet on an air leak either on the vent line, or a fitting, or the tankwatch sender if equipped. When you flush, smelly air is forced out of the tank into the boat instead of going overboard thru the vent.

check that first. is the smell worst when you flush?

Click to expand...

So there is no confusion, I said that the tank was 5-7 years old but I don't know that for certain. I estimated that because the tank has been "stabilized" by the use of expandable foam on all sides but the top. The white hoses look new but they were probably done when the tank was installed (Re-installed???) I thought that I had checked the vent hose but I didn't write that down in my book of things to do. In fact, as I think about it, I think that the foam was covering all the fittings including the vent. I will check that.
While I am asking alot of questions and will do something in the future, I had a hip replaced on Nov 9th and will probably get to this in Jan or Feb 2010. I want to be prepared as well as possible before then so I can get right to it and be ready before the start of summer 2010. Thanks for your input as I value it very much.
There is no tank watch sender and because of the difficulty of getting to that area, I have never actually been there when it was flushed. When I say 2-3 weeks of relief, since the head is so seldom used, that is the impression I get when I first start to smell it in the head area.
 
Probably a Ronco tank if there is no label on it. Mine have numbers stamped in them. My tanks are 3/8" thick how thick is your tank? Also I don't understand the foam mine are held in place with frames (cradles type for full tank support) and straps so once reached you can remove them.
Bill
 
Any chance that the head is the culprit, rather than the tank and the connecting hoses? Is it a sewage smell or a rotten-egg smell?

Along with the outside rinse water, raw water-flushing heads often draw in bits and pieces of grass and vegetation, particularly eel grass, that collect in the hollow rim at the top of the toilet bowl. It can also be tiny mussels, minnows and heaven only knows what else. I once even heard of a case where a baby octopus was drawn into the toilet via the outside rinse water. This unwanted stuff collects in the rim at the top of the toilet bowl because it is too large to fit through the drain holes on the underside of the bowl rim.

It lays inside there and decays, until it finally becomes small enough to fit through those holes. You may see brownish strands of vegetation running down the rim of the bowl along with the rinse water when you flush the toilet. They sort of resemble shredded tobacco.

Anyway, this stuff doesn't smell all that bad when it's dry. But when you come onboard on a Friday night, for example, and the first time you use the head that's been unused all week - and the water gets to the stuff that's caught up in the hollow rim at the top of the bowl and it gets wet -- WOW !!! -- it's enough to run you off the boat! (nauseating rotten-egg smell) Forget about how a wet dog smells; this is really bad!

Then over the weekend, the smell gradually lessens in intensity as the head is being used. The trick here is to add a fine-mesh strainer in the supply water line between the through-hull and the entry to the toilet. Put it in an accessible location where it can be emptied when needed. That will filter out the bulk of the odor-causing stuff, and improve things quite a bit.
 
I started to have a problem smell on my boat and it went away when I stopped using the raw water. Mine is a manual head that is designed so that you pump raw water in to the bowl, then flip the lever and pump whatever is in the bowl to the holding tank.
I started just filling the bowl with fresh water from the hand held shower, then pumping what was in the bowl to the holding tank. This seems to have done the trick because the offensive odor is gone.
I also make it a point to pump out whenever the opportunity presents itself rather than wait until the tank is full. I do this for a couple of reasons. One is to try to avoid the smell, and the other is out of necessity because the tank indicator doesn't work and I don't look forward to changing the sender in the waste tank so I just let it go.
Whenever I pump out I try to take an extra few minutes to fill the waste tank again with fresh water and then immediately pump that water out.
I also use the formaldahyde free version of Campa Chem that I buy in the RV section of Wal-Mart in the holding tank,
I'm pretty sure my hoses are all OK because since I started using the fresh water the smell went away, but the holding tank still stinks when I open the deck fitting to pump it out.
Next season I'm going to try putting some Dawn Dish Washing Liguid in the holding tank, filling it with fresh water, taking the boat for a ride, then pumping it out. I'm hoping the grease cutting ability of the Dawn will loosen up some of whatever is down in the tank and make it a little better.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll

Probably a Ronco tank if there is no label on it. Mine have numbers stamped in them. My tanks are 3/8" thick how thick is your tank? Also I don't understand the foam mine are held in place with frames (cradles type for full tank support) and straps so once reached you can remove them.
Bill

Click to expand...

The foam was probably used because the person who installed it was lazy. There is no way to remove them without "blasting." I just might have to do all that.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Vic Willman

Any chance that the head is the culprit, rather than the tank and the connecting hoses? Is it a sewage smell or a rotten-egg smell?

Along with the outside rinse water, raw water-flushing heads often draw in bits and pieces of grass and vegetation, particularly eel grass, that collect in the hollow rim at the top of the toilet bowl. It can also be tiny mussels, minnows and heaven only knows what else. I once even heard of a case where a baby octopus was drawn into the toilet via the outside rinse water. This unwanted stuff collects in the rim at the top of the toilet bowl because it is too large to fit through the drain holes on the underside of the bowl rim.

It lays inside there and decays, until it finally becomes small enough to fit through those holes. You may see brownish strands of vegetation running down the rim of the bowl along with the rinse water when you flush the toilet. They sort of resemble shredded tobacco.

Anyway, this stuff doesn't smell all that bad when it's dry. But when you come onboard on a Friday night, for example, and the first time you use the head that's been unused all week - and the water gets to the stuff that's caught up in the hollow rim at the top of the bowl and it gets wet -- WOW !!! -- it's enough to run you off the boat! (nauseating rotten-egg smell) Forget about how a wet dog smells; this is really bad!

Then over the weekend, the smell gradually lessens in intensity as the head is being used. The trick here is to add a fine-mesh strainer in the supply water line between the through-hull and the entry to the toilet. Put it in an accessible location where it can be emptied when needed. That will filter out the bulk of the odor-causing stuff, and improve things quite a bit.

Click to expand...

The head is new(2 years) and whenever it is used, I clean it out with a toilet brush and some diluted bleach cleaner. Whenever I get the tank pumped, I then rinse it out with fresh water and put one of the disolving tablets in the bowl. After a period of time(5 min) I flush the head into the tank.
 
quote:
Originally posted by JVM225

I started to have a problem smell on my boat and it went away when I stopped using the raw water. Mine is a manual head that is designed so that you pump raw water in to the bowl, then flip the lever and pump whatever is in the bowl to the holding tank.
I started just filling the bowl with fresh water from the hand held shower, then pumping what was in the bowl to the holding tank. This seems to have done the trick because the offensive odor is gone.
I also make it a point to pump out whenever the opportunity presents itself rather than wait until the tank is full. I do this for a couple of reasons. One is to try to avoid the smell, and the other is out of necessity because the tank indicator doesn't work and I don't look forward to changing the sender in the waste tank so I just let it go.
Whenever I pump out I try to take an extra few minutes to fill the waste tank again with fresh water and then immediately pump that water out.
I also use the formaldahyde free version of Campa Chem that I buy in the RV section of Wal-Mart in the holding tank,
I'm pretty sure my hoses are all OK because since I started using the fresh water the smell went away, but the holding tank still stinks when I open the deck fitting to pump it out.
Next season I'm going to try putting some Dawn Dish Washing Liguid in the holding tank, filling it with fresh water, taking the boat for a ride, then pumping it out. I'm hoping the grease cutting ability of the Dawn will loosen up some of whatever is down in the tank and make it a little better.

Click to expand...

My boat is a work in progress so I do not have a fresh water tank at this time. And I have very little space to put any more tanks into the hold. I am doing pretty close to what you are doing without the fresh water.
A related question here would be the size of the holding tank. Mine is 25 gallons and takes up a great deal of space. Since I don't use it that often (no long trips, etc.) what would be a viable size tank. While I don't look forward to the work to replace it, a smaller tank and a re-design of the hoses required and their pathway might make sense and then I would have an all new and maybe better designed system.
Because of my recent surgery, I won't be out on the boat until Jan or early Feb 2010, at least as far as serious work is concerned. I want to get out and look at all the points that you fellows have suggested.
 
You might want to put a filter in front of the raw water flush if possible. As far as a brush you will never get to the inside of the upper rim where these creatures die and or decay. The filter you can open and clean might help eliminate this potential problem.
Bill
 
Would it make sense to remove the raw water hose from the thru hull,place it in a bucket with bleach water and flush it thru the system & rim of the head. This may help clear up the odor & break down whatever may be in the rim.
 
Yes but again your only treating the symptom not the root cause. Do your patch 1st then install a filter that can be cleaned. Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by capecodmoon

Originally posted by JVM225

I started to have a problem smell on my boat and it went away when I stopped using the raw water. Mine is a manual head that is designed so that you pump raw water in to the bowl, then flip the lever and pump whatever is in the bowl to the holding tank.
I started just filling the bowl with fresh water from the hand held shower, then pumping what was in the bowl to the holding tank. This seems to have done the trick because the offensive odor is gone.
I also make it a point to pump out whenever the opportunity presents itself rather than wait until the tank is full. I do this for a couple of reasons. One is to try to avoid the smell, and the other is out of necessity because the tank indicator doesn't work and I don't look forward to changing the sender in the waste tank so I just let it go.
Whenever I pump out I try to take an extra few minutes to fill the waste tank again with fresh water and then immediately pump that water out.
I also use the formaldahyde free version of Campa Chem that I buy in the RV section of Wal-Mart in the holding tank,
I'm pretty sure my hoses are all OK because since I started using the fresh water the smell went away, but the holding tank still stinks when I open the deck fitting to pump it out.
Next season I'm going to try putting some Dawn Dish Washing Liguid in the holding tank, filling it with fresh water, taking the boat for a ride, then pumping it out. I'm hoping the grease cutting ability of the Dawn will loosen up some of whatever is down in the tank and make it a little better.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My boat is a work in progress so I do not have a fresh water tank at this time. And I have very little space to put any more tanks into the hold. I am doing pretty close to what you are doing without the fresh water.
A related question here would be the size of the holding tank. Mine is 25 gallons and takes up a great deal of space. Since I don't use it that often (no long trips, etc.) what would be a viable size tank. While I don't look forward to the work to replace it, a smaller tank and a re-design of the hoses required and their pathway might make sense and then I would have an all new and maybe better designed system.
Because of my recent surgery, I won't be out on the boat until Jan or early Feb 2010, at least as far as serious work is concerned. I want to get out and look at all the points that you fellows have suggested.

Click to expand...

If you don't know how much room you have and can't get to the job right now because of the surgery you might think about keeping five gallons of water on board the boat in a portable container. Each time you need to use the head you could just replace what you used with a little fresh water from the portable container.
This will give you an idea of how big a fresh water tank you need when you feel up to installing one.
Remember: It's not like your house where you need lots of water to create the gravity to push the waste down. On the boat you just need enough in the bowl to dilute the waste and pump it through. I think that you'll find that a few gallons of water used for this purpose will go a long way on the boat.
Click to expand...
 
My read is that you replaced the head 2 years ago, but that you really have no idea how old the hoses are.

You need to wrap a warm wet towel around the hose and see if it absorbs the stink. If it does, your hoses are shot, which is probably the case. You will need to replace them.
 
You really have to clean the rim of the bowl out well when you install the raw water line filter. Otherwise it will continue to stink for a long time even after the filter is installed.

And if you can get to your head hoses, try wrapping them in heavy duty Saran wrap. That can cut down on the smell if they're permeated. And let you hold off on replacing them for a while longer.
 
how bout ditching the head and installing a porta-potty? these can hold up to 5 gallons in a self-contained unit (the base of the potty). they can even be plumbed to a deck fitting (although you need to be careful when pumping out or you can implode the potty). you could then remove all the hoses (except to the pumpout deckfill) and re-use the space the current holding tank is sitting in for a fresh water tank.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll

You might want to put a filter in front of the raw water flush if possible. As far as a brush you will never get to the inside of the upper rim where these creatures die and or decay. The filter you can open and clean might help eliminate this potential problem.
Bill

Click to expand...

The filter is a good idea. What kind of filter are you talking about? Would it be one which is cleanable from inside by first turning off the raw water valve? Any names would be helpful. Thanks
 
quote:
Originally posted by JVM225

quote:
Originally posted by capecodmoon

Originally posted by JVM225

I started to have a problem smell on my boat and it went away when I stopped using the raw water. Mine is a manual head that is designed so that you pump raw water in to the bowl, then flip the lever and pump whatever is in the bowl to the holding tank.
I started just filling the bowl with fresh water from the hand held shower, then pumping what was in the bowl to the holding tank. This seems to have done the trick because the offensive odor is gone.
I also make it a point to pump out whenever the opportunity presents itself rather than wait until the tank is full. I do this for a couple of reasons. One is to try to avoid the smell, and the other is out of necessity because the tank indicator doesn't work and I don't look forward to changing the sender in the waste tank so I just let it go.
Whenever I pump out I try to take an extra few minutes to fill the waste tank again with fresh water and then immediately pump that water out.
I also use the formaldahyde free version of Campa Chem that I buy in the RV section of Wal-Mart in the holding tank,
I'm pretty sure my hoses are all OK because since I started using the fresh water the smell went away, but the holding tank still stinks when I open the deck fitting to pump it out.
Next season I'm going to try putting some Dawn Dish Washing Liguid in the holding tank, filling it with fresh water, taking the boat for a ride, then pumping it out. I'm hoping the grease cutting ability of the Dawn will loosen up some of whatever is down in the tank and make it a little better.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My boat is a work in progress so I do not have a fresh water tank at this time. And I have very little space to put any more tanks into the hold. I am doing pretty close to what you are doing without the fresh water.
A related question here would be the size of the holding tank. Mine is 25 gallons and takes up a great deal of space. Since I don't use it that often (no long trips, etc.) what would be a viable size tank. While I don't look forward to the work to replace it, a smaller tank and a re-design of the hoses required and their pathway might make sense and then I would have an all new and maybe better designed system.
Because of my recent surgery, I won't be out on the boat until Jan or early Feb 2010, at least as far as serious work is concerned. I want to get out and look at all the points that you fellows have suggested.

Click to expand...

If you don't know how much room you have and can't get to the job right now because of the surgery you might think about keeping five gallons of water on board the boat in a portable container. Each time you need to use the head you could just replace what you used with a little fresh water from the portable container.
This will give you an idea of how big a fresh water tank you need when you feel up to installing one.
Remember: It's not like your house where you need lots of water to create the gravity to push the waste down. On the boat you just need enough in the bowl to dilute the waste and pump it through. I think that you'll find that a few gallons of water used for this purpose will go a long way on the boat.

Click to expand...

I like the idea of fresh water but if I wait until the summer to begin using the fresh water, I would not be able to make a correction until the next winter. It is in my mind to try it.
Click to expand...
 
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