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Vic Willman

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Had an unscheduled visit to the "Palace of Pain" on November 22nd. I'd been on the way to Jiffy Lube to get the oil changed in my car, and came down with chest pains such as I've never experienced before. I returned from Jiffy Lube and told my wife that I'd better go to the emergency room... We started out, and traffic was terrible, so I told her to drive me to the local Rescue Squad's garage, and let the ambulance take me the rest of the way.

Got to the hospital and they ran every test on me that was imaginable, including the dreaded cardiac catheter. They did several blood tests daily, ultrasound tests, CAT scan, and all the regular EKG's, etc. My daughter-in-law is a critical care nurse at that hospital, and she made sure they didn't skip any tests, and that only the best doctors that were available got to work on me. Turns out it wasn't a heart attack at all, and that my arteries are actually in pretty good shape for my age (66). Cholesterol is pretty good, too. They aren't sure just what it was, but they're leaning toward a gall bladder attack. The tests showed "sludge" in the gall bladder, so they're going to keep an eye on it.

They turned me loose on the day before Thanksgiving, but wouldn't let me back to work until I had the required followup appointments with all the doctors and specialists. So today's my first day back at work, and so far - so good!
 
Sludge in the gall bladder of the guy who does marine sanitation for a living. Now if that's no irony, what is?!?!?

Glad you're OK Vic. Welcome back.
 
Vic, good to hear you're OK... well, except for that sludge thing. Now, how do I get that image out of my head????
 
Dunno, Mike and David; I've been drinking K.O. by the gallon, to try and get rid of the sludge - we'll see what happens! [:-bonc01][:-bonc01]

Maybe if the K.O. doesn't work, I'll try switching over to V.O. [:-bigeyes] [:-bigeyes]
 
Good luck there Vic. The admiral just had the same exact symptoms and tests and to quote her doctor, "It's time you and your gall bladder parted ways." Had surgery and was in, out and home in 4 hours with almost no pain and minimum recovery time. All's sewll a month and a half later... Be well...
 
quote:
Originally posted by Vic Willman

Dunno, Mike and David; I've been drinking K.O. by the gallon, to try and get rid of the sludge - we'll see what happens! [:-bonc01][:-bonc01]

Maybe if the K.O. doesn't work, I'll try switching over to V.O. [:-bigeyes] [:-bigeyes]

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Vic, maybe you need to adjust the level of salt for the system to function properly. :)
 
Vic,
At least nobody can fault you for posting in the "plumbing" forum. Welcome back!
Jim
 
It is what it is Vic. Nothing you can do is going to "wash" the sludge out of your gall bladder. Did anybody look at your esophagus with a scope (GERD)? Acid reflux can cause symptoms that mimic a cardiac source. Gall bladder pain is typically beneath your ribs on the right side and can radiate to your back.
 
My wife put up with Gall Bladder attacks for 5 years before I finally convinced her to have it removed. They only had to put 3 small holes and the belly button it was done Orthoscopically. In and out the same day. Get it over with it is any easy procedure. I just had the scope through your nose down into your throat, it wasn't bad they spray some crummy tasting liquid in your mouth I was having problems swallowing and bringing food back up turns out it was Acid Reflux, I thought it might be Cancer since it runs in my family and I haven't figured out how to stop smoking! Bill
 
"and I haven't figured out how to stop smoking! Bill"

Sell your business, it will be easy then ;)
 
Glad to hear your doing OK. Ask your doctor to put you on Ursodiol. It helps will Gallbladder stone dissolution.

Doug
 
Vic,
Glad your still with us

I’m with Gregory on this one, it could be ’Acid reflux can cause symptoms that mimic a cardiac source’

I have had a couple of GERD attacks that I felt were much more but a quick chug of alka-seltzer stopped the chest pain pronto

BTW: the K.O. adds to this because of the off gassing
 
"Ursodiol", or Actigal is a waste of time and money. Very expensive, should have an ultrasound every three months, takes avg 18 months to dissolve small stones and 100% will return with time. The problem is that a gall bladder may form stones, not that it contains stones. If you have stones and are having symptoms from them, then the gall bladder should be removed. If you have stones but no symptoms and are not diabetic, do nothing.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gregory Saracco

"Ursodiol", or Actigal is a waste of time and money. Very expensive, should have an ultrasound every three months, takes avg 18 months to dissolve small stones and 100% will return with time. The problem is that a gall bladder may form stones, not that it contains stones. If you have stones and are having symptoms from them, then the gall bladder should be removed. If you have stones but no symptoms and are not diabetic, do nothing.

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I'm curious where you got your information from? Ursodiol has it's specific uses. While it may not be great at dissolving complete gall stones, it can sure do a great job dissolving crystals and keep your bile duct clean. It's used on a case by case basis. I have no knowledge of Vic's specific case, but depending on how severe it is, his doctor may/may not suggest this drug. It was only a suggestion.

Doug
 
Where did I get my information? 25 years in the practice of surgery. Gallbladders have be very, very good to me!:) Believe me, it's a drug that is rarely used for the reasons given above. Also been known to make a large stone that isn't causing any trouble into a stone small enough to obstruct a bile duct and then you have a much bigger problem. It's really only useful for pts who are a prohibitive operative risk or just refuse to have surgery.IF his gallbladder is causing his symptoms, then it should be removed. If it's not, it should be left alone.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gregory Saracco

Where did I get my information? 25 years in the practice of surgery. Gallbladders have be very, very good to me!:) Believe me, it's a drug that is rarely used for the reasons given above. Also been known to make a large stone that isn't causing any trouble into a stone small enough to obstruct a bile duct and then you have a much bigger problem. It's really only useful for pts who are a prohibitive operative risk or just refuse to have surgery.IF his gallbladder is causing his symptoms, then it should be removed. If it's not, it should be left alone.

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Interesting. Not discounting your expertise at all, but is it possible that doctors can have different points of view on what does/does not work for a given case?

Here's what I do know.... I've been on Ursodiol for 3 years. I originally had such intense pain in my abdomen one day that I couldn't even get up off the couch. This pain would occur after every meal I ate (literally started out of the blue). I also would throw up steak after eating it (within 30 minutes). I never had issues with steak in my life. It was only steak that gave me trouble, never any burger, spicy foods, etc. I had every test in the book done (ultrasound, CAT scan, ejection fraction on gall bladder, etc). I never had any gall stones turn up and nothing abnormal was found. My cholesterol is 140. The GI doc did say there was possibility that small crystals (too small to show up for testing) may have formed in my bile duct causing the issues I experienced. Combine Urso with Nexium and I've been trouble free with no pain and no steak issues in 3 years.

Doug
 
You don't have sludge or stones, so what you describe may be possible or could even be a placebo effect. You don't know if it's the nexium or the Actigal helping your symptoms. I would suspect it's the nexium. Hopefully , your Gastroenterologist took a look at your stomach and esophagus. Cholesterol gall stones have no relationship to serum cholesterol levels. If your physician was convinced that your gall bladder was causing your trouble, he would have recommended removal instead of lifelong ursodeoxycholic acid. There are only 2 indications for Actigal: Dissolution of cholesterol gall stones in pts who are poor operative risks, or refuse surgery and prevention of cholesterol gall stones in morbidly obese pts who are undergoing rapid wt loss. Also, the safety of Actigal has not been established in treatment longer than 2 years. You need to be very careful here, you made a recommendation to Vic to "ask his Dr. to put him on Actigal". What may be working for you for whatever reason, may be of no benefit or even dangerous to somebody else. Heck, if this was easy, everybody would be doing it. By the way, I probably talk as many pts out of gall bladder surgery as those That I operate on. I'm not going to agree to perform this operation unless I'm very confident it's the right thing to do. Many pts referred to me for surgery are surprised when I don't recommend it. If you sit and listen to these pts and do a thorough physical exam you often find the real problem and then can avoid any invasive procedures. Helps me sleep well at night!
 
What about using sonic waves to destroy the stones? Is this a viable alternative to surgery?
 
It's been done in some centers but not a good alternative to surgery because as I stated above, the problem with a diseased gall bladder is that it forms stones. Once you dissolve or break up stones, they will come back. You don't need your gallbladder. Lithotripsy is great for kidney stones. You need your kidneys--both of them.
 
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