Looking for Advice - 1st time poster

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Riverledge13

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Apr 14, 2007
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25880
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I am 1st time poster and would like to ask the advice/opinions that you all may have regarding a planned trip I want to attempt.

For a brief background: I have been boating on the Hudson since 1999. I have owned 3 boats. A 19' a 21'5 and now a 24'5 - All cuddy cabins - all Bayliners. Despite some early misgivings about Bayliners, they have each held up well for me and my family. I cruise mainly between Catskill - Troy - Kingston during a season. We went to NYC last summer to see Lady Liberty. I also took my 21'5 Bayliner from Barnstable Harbor to Provincetown, MA. I am pretty comfortable with nautical charts, gps technology, and vhf radio usage. The mighty Hudson has claimed one prop from me and my gas gauge taught me VERY EARLY that "E" on a boat means "E". I don't have any "professional" training and have just let common sense and nautical markers/maps/guides be my best friends on the river. Mechanically, I am dysfunctional....I am a bean counter by trade.

To my question now for which I am seeking advice/opinions/input:

Last summer when we went to NY I was like a kid on Christmas. Below Kingston/Rondout was like opening a present every mile I went further. I have a strong desire to make a trip this summer to Block Island. I have studied the maps somewhat via the Internet. Mind you, these are not the real nautical maps I will need to obtain. Can a 24'5 foot Bayliner make this kind of journey? What can I expect when I hit Long Island Sound and Block Island Sound? I will be taking my 16 year old son. I am hoping to meet up with my wife and daughter once the "hard" part of the trip is done. That could mean meeting them in Ct. Or it could mean meeting them at Block Island. Wife and daugther are not fans of waves and banging around. I am sure I will have a million questions before this is done. I REALLY appreciate the chance to hear from some experienced boaters what you all think.

Thanks in advance for any tips or pieces of advice

Joe
 
The Long Island Sound for the most part would be fine, I took my 24 foot bayliner from Smithtown Bay to Lady Liberty in 2001. Block Island Sound can get pretty rough and conditions can change pretty quickly. In answer to you question, yes it is possible with your boat. Weather and sea conditions will make it a nice trip or a rough trip. I would plot out places you can duck into if the weather turns bad.

Welcome aboard

Walter
 
Yes, welcome aboard. I'll echo Walter's remarks about boating on the sound and going to Block. If you hit NY Harbor when it was choppy that should give you an idea of how your boat will ride in chop on the sound. Think about that and how long it will take to get to your destinations. Plan your trip so you don't wear yourself out getting there.
It all depends on the weather. I've come all the way back in from Block to Liberty landing and the sound was so flat you could have water skied all the way. But then I've been out in genuine LI Snot and even with our current boat we ducked in to the Housatanic.
 
wind with waves and fog are the two things you must be prepared for.
 
The "hard part of the trip" is usually from Orient Point to Block.

Like any other body of water, it can be like glass or it can be a frightening horror show! Choose your weather window carefully. If you are at Block, don't be surprised if your planned departure is delayed due to fog and/or wind - leave extra time built in.

I recommend that you have radar - you can get socked in with "pea soup" fog, GPS - and know how to uise it, as well as a VHF.

I have been to Block many times in a 24' boat, so it can be done. Get the Embassy Guide to Long Island Sound and the charts for the Sound.

It is best to go through Sputen Duyvil and out the East River, time Hell Gate so that you go through at slack tide. If you can then get the incoming tide running with you, you'll pick up a couple of knots.

Watch out for floating debris and lobster pots. The Sound is well marked, the channel heads due east right down the center.

Reservations are a must for weekends.

Keep asking and we'll keep answering.
 
Thanks for the info.

So, it would seem that the main idea I am seeing here is that the weather is a crucial factor in planning my trip. I wonder if travelling at certain times might minimize my chop? In other words, when I went to NYC last year I made it from the Hudson Highlands almost down to NYC with almost 0 chop. I started from around West point at 6:00 am and it was like glass all the way to NYC. However, upon leaving NYC we encountered some real choppy conditions. This was say around noon time. Can I sort of assume that very early travel on these waters might be a good time to move when wind and boat traffic might be less? Thanks for your reply. Also, Doziers Waterways was recommended on another site I posted my plan. Any feedback on that resource for my trip?

Thanks again

Joe
 
Dozier's is a good resource. Usually, the morning is much calmer than the afternoon.

The fog can roll in at any time.

When are you planning your trip?
 
Hi Joe, glad to see you made it over here and that your getting the advice that you need. These guys are great.
 
July or August. I would prefer July unless there is a compelling safety reason, etc for waiting until August. My 16 year old son and I are planning this and I need to do this while he is out of school this summer.

Thank you guys very very much. I can't believe it took me 8 plus years to take advantage of such a fantastic resource.

A huge thank to the BOH forums that directed me here as well.
 
Joe we boaters can always expect that NY harbor will be choppy any time after seven A.M. Eight at the latest. Particularly during the week when the NY Waterways ferries are all over the place. But if you go the east river route it will be glass until you get to the Gate. While on the east river make sure to back down for marinas. As I recall there is a dock on the east shore where the police hang out. Keep your eyes peeled and don't wake anyone.
In your boat with good weather I would expect that you can easily get to Manhasset Bay from Catskill in a day. Plan on fueling up at the park in Jersey (Alpine?) across from the Spt.Duy. bridge. Perhaps you could make it to Port Jeff?
From there Montauk is within reach when it's calm, perhaps Block.
I am talking the north shore of L.I. because when the wind is out of the south west I have a feeling that is where you want to be. If it is out of the north, or the east, I wonder about the comfort factor (zero) you can expect. But then perhaps some others have experience under those conditions. I know first hand that an outgoing tide in the sound with wind out of the east is no picnic.
Without question a plotter or a well planned trip mapped out on charts and a GPS with coordinates will help. The sound is "big water" and your perspective has to grow to accommodate that. Not so much the rough water conditions. Any one can appreciate those. It's the navigation and making time that will get you if you don't have a feeling for where you are in a large place.
When you get out there all of a sudden it opens up and the perspective shifts. To make good time and enjoy the ride a GPS with some appropriately chosen way points is going to make it easier.
 
I would echo what everyone else has said here. I would also stress that the weather is the most important consideration in this trip. You can't plan a schedule without the flexibility to delay due to the weather.

Under certain conditions, the LI Sound can be pretty bad, especially out east. Build in extra time and you won't stress over it.
 
Once again....Thank you for all the advice

My next step(s) are now going to be :

Acquire Doziers Northern Waterway Guide
Acquire the appropriate nautical charts covering LI Sound to Block Island
Research tow insurance - I assume Seatow is where I want to check?
I have a handheld GPS device (one of the Garmin models)
Should I look into a system that I can have installed on my boat?
Any advice on a good brand/model would be very welcome

Time is on my side. I plan to make very short and relaxing trips from Catskill to Block Island. My initial thought is 4 hours on the water at a time. At the end of 4 hours I would like to be at my planned destination where I can take on fuel, get fresh water, pump out, eat, relax , etc.

On that 4 hour leg of my trip I will have (as best as I can) a backup marina or landing where I can duck into if weather is against me. These "backup" stops will be spaced about 1 hour apart if I can do that. The goal simply being to know I have someplace I can tie up to if need be.

As long as I can get waypoints to all of these planned stops, I will program them into my GPS. I will have a float plan which would detail all of the planned stops. I will put the phone numbers, etc of them all in the plan. One copy with me and one copy with my wife who will be on land until my son and I reach Block Island.

2 more questions come to mind:

1. How good/bad can I expect Cell Phone coverage to be? I am with Verizon.

2. Will I be able to get a wireless internet connection at the various places I stop at along the way?

Thanks again for all your help.

Joe
 
Verizon service is fine throughout LI Sound. Some marinas have WIFI, if you are using a Verizon card, you'll be fine with internet service.
 
Plan for fog so add to your list navigating without reference to visible clues.
 
quote:
Should I look into a system that I can have installed on my boat?
Click to expand...


I would vote for a unit that is mounted because if it gets choppy you will have your mind on other things like hanging on.
Ensure that the GPS can be programmed with way points and a route. Having a GPS plotter is very helpful since you can plot the course right on the charts installed into the plotter.
I have both Garmin and Furuno and I think Garmin has the edge.
Alternatively, if the handheld can track a route, and it can be uploaded from software you have that may suffice.
But in bad weather having the plotter hard mounted is the only way to go IMHO.
 
quote:
Originally posted by boatbum

I have both Garmin and Furuno and I think Garmin has the edge.
Alternatively, if the handheld can track a route, and it can be uploaded from software you have that may suffice.
But in bad weather having the plotter hard mounted is the only way to go IMHO.

Click to expand...

I agree with Dan
I have Garmin and a couple of NorthStars & I think the Garmin ubits are better
Click to expand...
 
You are planning well, which is the first indicator of a good trip. And you've stopped calling them "maps" so you stand a chance learning to use your charts.

Two things: be flexible, and practice, practice, practice.

Be flexible means if you're not comfortable with the weather, stay another day. Esp. if you don't have radar. If you are making good time and conditions are good, skip your planned stopover and press on.

Practice with your GPS/chartplotter, radar if you have it, and paper charts. Do this in good weather, before you need them. Learn to pick out routes and waypoints on the fly and navigate to them. Use your compass to stay on course, not your GPS. Get in the habit of looking a few waypoints ahead. Know how to navigate back to a safe port even if you lose all your electronics.

Whatever you end up with, make sure you have the most current charts, updated from the local notice to mariners, and the most recent chip for your chartplotter if you go that route.

Each cruising guide gives you different information. Bring 2 or 3.

And of course, plan on spending quite a bit more than you budgeted. After all, this is boating!
 
LOL - yeah, that money thing always seems to crop up. Especially with the $4.00/gallon gas you're likely to see at many a Long Island marina this year if things don't change quick!!!

My biggest piece of advice would be BE PATIENT - resist the temptation to go out in "iffy" weather because of a time constraint. And be as confident as you can be about the weather from Port Jefferson eastward on every leg of your trip before setting out...

My brother and I tried a trip in my old 1975 Carver 28 back when I was about 20 (actually it was my Dad's boat back then - the crazy SOB actualy let us take this trip). We left New Rochelle and headed for Montauk. We didn't go off half-cocked - I was a good seaman even back then and we had planned it very carefully. We were smart enough to stay inshore when the weather got rough, and handled all the various problems that happen on a long trip quite well. One in particular dogged us - some crap had gotten into the gasoline and the engines seemed to act up once in awhile. On the way back I smartly decided, after a long day of running, to put in at Port Jefferson for the night, because the port engine was stumbling a bit and we were only a couple of hours from home port. So we anchored near Conscience Bay and took it easy. Overnight, a strong cold front came through. We SHOULD have stayed on the hook that day, safe and sound. But Paul had to get back to school. So we tried to get home. Well, the 2-4 foot waves that were forecast were actually about 6 feet high, and those old, half rotted Carvers were no match for those kinds of sea conditions!!! After seeing half the side of the flybridge come loose, we turned around and went back into PJ, the boat a complete shambles and our egos shattered after what had been an uneventful trip. The boat was never right again after that until a few years later when my friend Mark and I completely rebuilt it. Had we been smart and delayed our trip home for a day, everything would have been fine...
 
Again, many thanks for the advice.

Does anyone have a particular model/make chart plotter / gps combo that they would endorse? My initial research in a West Marine catalouge showed prices range $400 and up. I am mostly interested in a unit that would have the waterways I plan to navigate "pre-loaded" into the units memory/storage. I assume a depth finder is a standard on all units. Are there other features that I should look for or that you guys like / hate?

Regarding the above post which advised practicing using these charts and electronic aids in "good weather" Can you give me a for example? Like would I plot some known points on the area of the Hudson I cruise and just sort of test how the unit works, etc?

Lastly, when I have studied nautical charts in the past I almost always would focus on the varying depths and the placements of the nuns and cans that would mark the channel of the area I intended to travel to/near. However, there are a MILLION little icons etc that I know mean other things. Like sunken wrecks, etc....is there a place that is kind of a glossary for all the various icons/symbols used on nautical charts? Or, is it just going to be on the legend of my chart?

Thank you again
 
Many times there is a legend right on the chart. One other piece of advice....binoculars. Get some good ones and have a stable place to stow them at the helm. I find that while the digital electronics are best, binoculars can't be beat for double checking exactly where you are. Each buoy has a number and it's on the cart...as you pass, a visual confirmation is great to have.

In fact, in September, I took the reverse trip...Narragansett bay around point Judith (across from Block), into the LI sound, Harlem river then the Hudson. I was taking home my new-to-me boat and the installed GPS/plotter did not work. Instead, I had two hand helds, charts, binoculars and installed compass. I found that the hand helds were virtually useless to navigate with. The display was too small and they were hard to mount so they were usually on the floor. It was a clear day so we used charts, buoys, compass, and binoculars. As you pass one buoy, there's often a line showing say "183*" to the next buoy. Put your compass on that and keep it. Sooner or later, the next buoy would appear. Of course, if we got nervous, we did turn on the GPS once in a while to verify we were in the vicinity we thought.

With all this planning, you are destined to have a great trip!
 
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