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How hard is it to install a macerator for an overboard pumpout? I have an electric head with a holding tank, but no pumpout.
art
art
overboard pumpout
- Thread starter greenstreak
- Start date
To answer your question directly, it's not hard at all. But unless you are 3+ miles offshore, you can't legally discharge overboard. If you are referring to a macerator to aid in moving the waste to the hose at a pumpout station, it's not necessary. The problem is in the pump end of the equation, not the boat end.
Or are you telling us you have a tank with no means of emptying it at all?
Or are you telling us you have a tank with no means of emptying it at all?
Art,
Are you on a lake or ocean? If you are on a lake, forget it. If you are on the ocean, Like KiDa said, you legally have to be at least 3 miles off shore. If you use your boat on a lake and ocean, you need to be careful if you install an overboard discharge, then use the boat on a lake.
Are you on a lake or ocean? If you are on a lake, forget it. If you are on the ocean, Like KiDa said, you legally have to be at least 3 miles off shore. If you use your boat on a lake and ocean, you need to be careful if you install an overboard discharge, then use the boat on a lake.
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And don't forget the valve locking system...
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Any boat that has a holding tank should have a deck fitting that allows for dockside pumpout at a marina pumpout station, or via a mobile pumpout boat.
To use a macerator pump to pump out the tank into the water, as has been mentioned earlier, you've gotta be 3 miles or more out in the ocean; you can't use a macerator pump for emptying your tank into the water anywhere in the U.S. that's inside the 3 mile limit. No lakes, rivers, ICW or anywhere else. If you have a macerator pump that's connected to an overboard thru-hull, the seacock must be turned to the "off" position and secured in that position, by locking it off, removing the handle from the seacock, or other means, at any time you are inside the 3 mile limit. In the Florida Keys, you must be 12 miles from shore, due to the shallow water there. If you get caught inside the 3 mile/12 mile limit and the seacock is in the open position, there's a $2,000.00 Federal fine, regardless of whether you're actually pumping out the tank at the time - or not. There may be other state and local fines, as well.
But to answer your question on how it's done. First you need a 1 1/2" thru-hull fitting in general proximity to the holding tank. Then you add a "Y" valve in the pumpout line that leads to the deck pumpout fitting. One output from the "Y" valve goes right back to the deck pumpout fitting. The other output from the "Y" valve goes to the macerator pump, and from there to the thru-hull fitting. Then you wire up the macerator pump. When you're 3 miles or more out to sea, you can switch the "Y" valve position to go to the macerator pump, open the seacock, turn on the pump, and pump out the tank.
To use a macerator pump to pump out the tank into the water, as has been mentioned earlier, you've gotta be 3 miles or more out in the ocean; you can't use a macerator pump for emptying your tank into the water anywhere in the U.S. that's inside the 3 mile limit. No lakes, rivers, ICW or anywhere else. If you have a macerator pump that's connected to an overboard thru-hull, the seacock must be turned to the "off" position and secured in that position, by locking it off, removing the handle from the seacock, or other means, at any time you are inside the 3 mile limit. In the Florida Keys, you must be 12 miles from shore, due to the shallow water there. If you get caught inside the 3 mile/12 mile limit and the seacock is in the open position, there's a $2,000.00 Federal fine, regardless of whether you're actually pumping out the tank at the time - or not. There may be other state and local fines, as well.
But to answer your question on how it's done. First you need a 1 1/2" thru-hull fitting in general proximity to the holding tank. Then you add a "Y" valve in the pumpout line that leads to the deck pumpout fitting. One output from the "Y" valve goes right back to the deck pumpout fitting. The other output from the "Y" valve goes to the macerator pump, and from there to the thru-hull fitting. Then you wire up the macerator pump. When you're 3 miles or more out to sea, you can switch the "Y" valve position to go to the macerator pump, open the seacock, turn on the pump, and pump out the tank.
Forgot to mention, mine would discharge (if I ever got to the 3 mile mark) via a through hull in the bottom of the boat. That is just one more hole I need to worry about. If it did not come with the macerator, I wouldn't have added it. If the $ is there, the way to go is with a Lectro San. No pumpouts ever again. If and when I get my next boat, the Lectro San install is on the short list. As a matter of fact, if I was keeping this boat I would consider it as the unit would free up space for a generator.
So, Vic, most of the time, our houseboat-in-progress will be in coastal waters where it's permissible to treat-and-dump. Investing in the Hold'n'Treat, as I understand it, would entail holding onto a partial load of sewage all the time, even when we're in home waters where direct treatment systems are fine. Occasionally,we hope, we might be in harbors or waters where holding tanks and pump-out are required, though. So, can we have a lockable Y valve to the treatment system for most-of-the-time, and to a completely pump-out-able holding tank for the someday-just-in-case scenario? Or should we invest in a five-gallon bucket of cedar shavings, and a padlock for the regular toilet seat for those times in pristine ports, if we ever get that far?
Also, 'nother oddball question: what do you know about those bidet seats so popular in Japan, as an aftermarket attachment for the head? Seems like a semi-luxurious possiblity for reducing the TP impact, and providing a quick mini-shower for when water's short. It'd be especially nice if it could be hooked up to a little solar-heated water tank for sailboats and others without unlimited electricity. (No, I don't want the top-of-the-line electronic marvel that senses an approaching user, pre-heats the seat, has 10 remote-control spray options, blows warm air on the user's bum, provides soothing sound-masking tunes while in use, and gently lowers the lid afterward.) Your company's next invention?
Also, 'nother oddball question: what do you know about those bidet seats so popular in Japan, as an aftermarket attachment for the head? Seems like a semi-luxurious possiblity for reducing the TP impact, and providing a quick mini-shower for when water's short. It'd be especially nice if it could be hooked up to a little solar-heated water tank for sailboats and others without unlimited electricity. (No, I don't want the top-of-the-line electronic marvel that senses an approaching user, pre-heats the seat, has 10 remote-control spray options, blows warm air on the user's bum, provides soothing sound-masking tunes while in use, and gently lowers the lid afterward.) Your company's next invention?
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Amelia, I've been following with interest, your progress in building your houseboat, on several different Forums, and congratulations to you and to your "builder." Your ideal approach would be to have a treatment system, such as a Purasan or an electro-scan, AND a small holding tank, in the range of 10 or 15 gallons, rather than going to the expense of the Hold 'N Treat system. You would install a "Y" valve between the toilet and the treatment system. One output from the "Y" valve would go to the treatment system, then overboard. The other output from the "Y" valve would go to the holding tank.
In normal situations, the toilet would flush to the treatment system, where the effluent would be treated, then sent overboard. Should you go into a No Discharge Zone, you'd change the position of the "Y" valve, and the toilet would pump directly to the holding tank. The holding tank, when full, would have to be pumped out at a dockside facility, so you'd need a deck pumpout fitting with a hose running from there to the bottom of the holding tank.
But in looking at your home port (Edenton), it would appear that the majority of your boating will be done in Albemarle Sound and Pamlico Sound, with the possibility of going down the ICW maybe as far as Cape Fear, and maybe north to the Virginia State line. Anywhere beyond that, you'd have to go out in the ocean - not likely, nor wise, with a houseboat. So you'll pretty much always be in an area that permits the discharge of treated waste. If it were I, I'd simply go with the treatment system and forget all about having a holding tank. Should you ever decide to move the boat to a No Discharge area, such as Lake Norman, you can always go with a Porta Potty and empty it when on shore. As big as that boat is, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't envision you ever transporting it over land to any distant locations which are popular houseboating areas, such as Lake Powell, Lake Mead or the California Delta area. Lake Cumberland, in Kentucky, is another popular houseboating area, but they do currently allow treatment systems there.
As far as bidet seats go, my background (and sympathies) goes in the opposite direction - outhouses and Sears catalogs.
I really don't have much of a favorable feeling about them. Raritan offered them several years back but the sales just weren't there, so they were discontinued. At best, they're a compromise. If you want to have a bidet, get a real one - don't get something that's basically just a (not so) cheap imitation - just offering my $.02.
Seriously, when I was a little kid back in the '40's, we did have an outhouse, right here in New Jersey - a good one, though - it was built by the WPA. When you went out there in the winter time, you didn't sit and read magazines for half an hour - too cold!
In normal situations, the toilet would flush to the treatment system, where the effluent would be treated, then sent overboard. Should you go into a No Discharge Zone, you'd change the position of the "Y" valve, and the toilet would pump directly to the holding tank. The holding tank, when full, would have to be pumped out at a dockside facility, so you'd need a deck pumpout fitting with a hose running from there to the bottom of the holding tank.
But in looking at your home port (Edenton), it would appear that the majority of your boating will be done in Albemarle Sound and Pamlico Sound, with the possibility of going down the ICW maybe as far as Cape Fear, and maybe north to the Virginia State line. Anywhere beyond that, you'd have to go out in the ocean - not likely, nor wise, with a houseboat. So you'll pretty much always be in an area that permits the discharge of treated waste. If it were I, I'd simply go with the treatment system and forget all about having a holding tank. Should you ever decide to move the boat to a No Discharge area, such as Lake Norman, you can always go with a Porta Potty and empty it when on shore. As big as that boat is, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't envision you ever transporting it over land to any distant locations which are popular houseboating areas, such as Lake Powell, Lake Mead or the California Delta area. Lake Cumberland, in Kentucky, is another popular houseboating area, but they do currently allow treatment systems there.
As far as bidet seats go, my background (and sympathies) goes in the opposite direction - outhouses and Sears catalogs.
I really don't have much of a favorable feeling about them. Raritan offered them several years back but the sales just weren't there, so they were discontinued. At best, they're a compromise. If you want to have a bidet, get a real one - don't get something that's basically just a (not so) cheap imitation - just offering my $.02.Seriously, when I was a little kid back in the '40's, we did have an outhouse, right here in New Jersey - a good one, though - it was built by the WPA. When you went out there in the winter time, you didn't sit and read magazines for half an hour - too cold!
Thanks, Vic- as always, you're a fine source of common sense. I'm thinking about how easy it's going to be to install the plumbing now while the space between the deck's easily accessible, and wondering what we should allow for. It certainly seems that the Purasan or Electro-Scan would be the way to go now, and maybe the only ever necessary, but thinking of what some bone-headed politician/nanny will think to ban or require next (that which is not forbidden is mandatory, your government at work), I was borrowing trouble, I guess.
As for the bidet, Spouse and I first laughed at the over-furnished mahstah bahth in a former home, but were soon amazed how convenient the thing was. Upon moving again, we missed it for quicky freshen-ups, bathing-suit rinsing, etc., and never again had that much space available to install one. Also, having noted with due reverence Peggie Hall's advice to strictly limit TP usage, I got to thinking again about multi-purpose alternatives. The dedicated units do require floor space that's at a premium, and they're heavy. But if the Japanese jobs aren't reliable and sturdy, we could probably just order another subscription to Sears. Eh, bien. Quel dommage.
As for the bidet, Spouse and I first laughed at the over-furnished mahstah bahth in a former home, but were soon amazed how convenient the thing was. Upon moving again, we missed it for quicky freshen-ups, bathing-suit rinsing, etc., and never again had that much space available to install one. Also, having noted with due reverence Peggie Hall's advice to strictly limit TP usage, I got to thinking again about multi-purpose alternatives. The dedicated units do require floor space that's at a premium, and they're heavy. But if the Japanese jobs aren't reliable and sturdy, we could probably just order another subscription to Sears. Eh, bien. Quel dommage.
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Hey guys. thanks for all the input. I know I have to be 3 miles or more out to use. I go fishing sometimes and I am 30 miles out. My other boat had the overboard pumpout. Also, when out on the river and I down have a marina to pump out the tank then I can pump it out back at the storage in a 5 gallon bucket. I KNOW THIS SOUNDS TERRIBLE! but at least I can get it out.
art
art
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David (KiDa) - what you're describing, is basically Raritan's "Hold 'N Treat" system.
http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/hold_n_treat/holdntreatsystem.pdf
It was designed and intended for use on boats that regularly go in and out of No Discharge Zones (NDZ's). Everything first goes into a holding tank. When in a NDZ, the holding tank fills and is pumped out at a dockside facility, in the conventional manner. When you leave the NDZ, the captain has a key switch to turn on the system (the system must be set to the "no discharge" position, and the key removed from the locking switch whenever you're in a NDZ), and while you're motoring away it begins transferring measured amounts from the holding tank to the treatment system, where it is treated and sent overboard. It has the capability to treat 4-6 gallons/hr. It works automatically with tank sensors, so that when the contents in the tank drop below a pre-set level, it turns off and remains on "standby" until the level comes back up to the pre-set high level, whereupon it turns back on.
It is available as a complete system with holding tank and transfer pump included, or you can buy it as a "component system", just the controller, switch panel, tapes to monitor the tank's contents, and a relay to turn on a transfer pump (that you supply). You also have to already have a plastic or fiberglass holding tank installed on the boat, to use the component system.
See earlier discussion:
http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=83339
http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/hold_n_treat/holdntreatsystem.pdf
It was designed and intended for use on boats that regularly go in and out of No Discharge Zones (NDZ's). Everything first goes into a holding tank. When in a NDZ, the holding tank fills and is pumped out at a dockside facility, in the conventional manner. When you leave the NDZ, the captain has a key switch to turn on the system (the system must be set to the "no discharge" position, and the key removed from the locking switch whenever you're in a NDZ), and while you're motoring away it begins transferring measured amounts from the holding tank to the treatment system, where it is treated and sent overboard. It has the capability to treat 4-6 gallons/hr. It works automatically with tank sensors, so that when the contents in the tank drop below a pre-set level, it turns off and remains on "standby" until the level comes back up to the pre-set high level, whereupon it turns back on.
It is available as a complete system with holding tank and transfer pump included, or you can buy it as a "component system", just the controller, switch panel, tapes to monitor the tank's contents, and a relay to turn on a transfer pump (that you supply). You also have to already have a plastic or fiberglass holding tank installed on the boat, to use the component system.
See earlier discussion:
http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=83339
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I spoke to Vic last spring after my marina's pump-out was full for the 3rd time in a row (when our tank was of course full as well!). I bought an ElectroScan and installed it post holding tank (thus making my own Hold-n-Treat). My wife and I LOVE it. No more pump-outs! We use the boat a good bit and are in brackish water water just outside of Baltimore on the Chesapeake. I have to stop at a store about once a month for a $5 bag of salt pellets, worst case. When we're in the lower Chesapeake or in the ocean, we don't need any extra salt. This system is well worth the money for anybody who uses their boat on a regular basis (and uses the head as well that is). The support from Vic and the folks at Raritan is fantastic.
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I have no way to lock my Y valve or seacock for that matter, so what I do, is remove the fuse to the macerator. It is right next to the macerator and that disables it.
I hope this is adequate.
Jonathan
I hope this is adequate.
Jonathan
Jonathon,
Several ears ago when I had my Chaparral I had the same problem. The CGA suggested that I use a zip tie on the Y valve as well. As for the seacock I take my handle off and zip it to the valve. When we took the trip to lake Champlain we where told just taken the fuse out wasn't considered disabling the unit.
Several ears ago when I had my Chaparral I had the same problem. The CGA suggested that I use a zip tie on the Y valve as well. As for the seacock I take my handle off and zip it to the valve. When we took the trip to lake Champlain we where told just taken the fuse out wasn't considered disabling the unit.
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I can zip tie the y valve but it really doesn't lock it. I can still open the valve if I try to.
Strange that taking the fuse out isn't disabling the system. How then can you pump the tank out if the macerator isn't hooked up!
Jonathan
Strange that taking the fuse out isn't disabling the system. How then can you pump the tank out if the macerator isn't hooked up!
Jonathan
Robyns Nest,
I have the same problem with my y valve, it does not lock. But I am taking mine one step further the you, instead of pulling the fuse I am adding a keyed switch, next to the macerator. According to the Coast Guard Aux, that I spoke with this is legal, as long as the key is not in the switch.
I have the same problem with my y valve, it does not lock. But I am taking mine one step further the you, instead of pulling the fuse I am adding a keyed switch, next to the macerator. According to the Coast Guard Aux, that I spoke with this is legal, as long as the key is not in the switch.
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If using a zip-tie, you'll often have to drill a small hole in the handle of the valve, to feed the zip-tie through, so that it is securely held in the closed position.
Vic:
You stated: "If you have a macerator pump that's connected to an overboard thru-hull, the seacock must be turned to the "off" position and secured in that position, by locking it off, removing the handle from the seacock, or other means, at any time you are inside the 3 mile limit."
Do you have any reference which specifically describes what sort of lock-out is acceptable, and what is not? In other words, define "other means." This always raises debate. Once and for all I'd like to see some legal definition, or case law, or something besides opinion or third-hand reports. If anyone can find it, I know you can!
- Tom
You stated: "If you have a macerator pump that's connected to an overboard thru-hull, the seacock must be turned to the "off" position and secured in that position, by locking it off, removing the handle from the seacock, or other means, at any time you are inside the 3 mile limit."
Do you have any reference which specifically describes what sort of lock-out is acceptable, and what is not? In other words, define "other means." This always raises debate. Once and for all I'd like to see some legal definition, or case law, or something besides opinion or third-hand reports. If anyone can find it, I know you can!
- Tom