Problems with both of my Atlantes heads

D

davida

Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
RO Number
20864
Messages
43
Hi,

I have two about 2 year old fresh water Atlantes heads, bought new from Boatfix with integral vented loops and remote control plates, on my boat and both of them started having problems. Both the holding tank (60 gallons, plastic) and the hoses (Sealand's white) were installed new when I bought the boat and don't seem to have any smell or problems.

One of the heads never held as much water in the bowl as the other one, at best just enough water to fill the "throat" at the bottom of the bowl after flushing. I always needed to flush it several times to get the bowl clean. Over time, I needed to flush it more and more times to get the bowl clean. What happens is, after some time of non-use, when I first flush it, the fresh water just runs through the head's bowl without the "contents" being moved away. Water does not stay in the bowl. The macerator spins, water flows through it but the "contents" are not being sucked away. After flush cycle is finished, air bubbles start to come out of the throat. Then I flush a second time, same situation, just more air bubbles. After 4-6 flushes, (or when I pour about a gallon of water into the bowl with a bucket), the bowl starts to contain the incoming fresh water, fills up, the macerator primes and finally sucks everything away and everything is fine. If I use the head again within 45 minutes or so, the head works normal. If longer, this whole procedure needs to be repeated. Needless to say that this fills up the holding tank real fast.

I reported this problem here on the boards some time ago and was told that the internal loop vent might be clogged. Both me and my captain checked it and the vent seems to work fine.

The second head worked fine until now, with the bowl filling up with and holding the water just fine after use, up to one third of the bowl and flushing right away the next time. Last weekend, however, it failed to flush. When you push the flush button, the macerator (or some other motor) runs but the water in the bowl with it's "contents" doesn't move. It just stays there. I tried the "empty bowl" button, same story, something runs but the bowl water doesn't empty. Same with all of the other buttons on the control plate. Don't know what to do.

Thank you for any help.

David
 
David, sounds like the same problem with both heads. Pull each one out from the wall and look inside the bottom portion of the clear plastic cover. Inside, you should see the white plastic star wheel cutter blade, and water - nothing else. Behind the cutter blade is a ring-shaped passageway, circular and about 5/8" wide. I feel fairly certain that something is caught in that passageway. If so, the clear plastic cover will have to be removed. Note that anything that is in that chamber will now come running out on the floor, so expect that. Then, reach in with a pair of long-nose pliers and pull out whatever is caught in there. After clearing it, the cover may then be put back on, the seal is reusable.

There may be a wad of toilet paper, a paper towel, a handy-wipe, a feminine hygiene product, or anything that doesn't easily shred - even a condom! But whatever is in there, will have to come out before the toilet will flush properly.

As long as you can hear the macerator and discharge pump come on and run (2-3 seconds after pushing the flush button) - the problem isn't mechanical. It's that someone has plugged it up - or that there's a clog or mineral buildup in the hosing external to the toilet. But the macerator portion of the toilet is the most likely spot for a clog, and is the best place to begin troubleshooting.
 
David, I never found out how you made out with the problem with your Atlantes heads? were they clogged?
 
Vic,

Thanks for following up.

Believe it or not but I never had the time to move or check the heads and we were hardly on the boat.

However, I do believe that we have two different problems on the heads.

Head # one's problem is just emptying the bowl very slowly. By continuously pressing the "empty bowl" button it is emptying the bowl. And it does retain the water in the bowl. And that water in the bowl is clean water after everything is gone. This is the one were you might be right of some restriction being in the system

The other one, I think, has some more serious problems.

It does NOT retain water in the bowl at any time, just maybe 1/4" at the bottom of the bowl. When you start flushing, at first, the flush water simply runs past the "waste" into the hose and nothing else. The bowl does not fill up with water. Flushing sounds like a household macerator running with nothing in the sink. The pump/macerator runs but does not build-up any suction. When the cycle stops flushing, slow bubbles (lots of them) come back out of the bottom of the bowl. Just bubbles, like gurgling. You flush again, same thing, waste still there, flush water gone and bubbles. After 4-6 flushes, the bowl slowly starts to fill up with water. Still still some bubbles coming out but finally, with water in the bowl, they slow down and stop. Now you can proceed with a "real" flushing cycle where you can hear the macerator loading up with water and building up suction and finally, the "waste" is gone.

Most disturbing part is though that after a minute or two, the bowl starts loosing the water in the bowl and back-up from the hose, all brown and smelly, starts to creep back into the bowl, about 1/4" high and stays there.

Pretty unpleasant, I can tell you, in addition to all that wasted water.

I can hardly imagine that just some blockage is causing all of this as the head empties quickly once I have gone through all those flushes and the macerator has built up suction.

My questions would be:

1. Why do I have to flush so many times until the macerator builds up any suction and the bowl does not retain water?

2. Why are bubbles coming out of the bottom of the bowl for the first 4-6 flushes?

3. Why and how is dirty black water coming back into the bowl?

Thanks, David

Btw, I had previously checked the vent on the loop it seemed to work fine.
 
Just a thought, could it be a clogged holding tank vent? That would force air/water/waste back towards the bowl as pressure builds up?

Bob
 
My thoughts exactly. As the holding tank fills, the air that is inside it must exit the tank via the vent line. If the vent line is plugged up, the air cannot escape from the tank and the tank will begin to pressurize as it fills more and more. What you are describing is a classic example of a plugged-up holding tank vent line. The pressure that builds up will relieve itself in the area of least resistance - back through the toilet. First it will be a little bubbling back, than as the tank pressure builds up more, you will get dirty water coming back, and finally you'll get more than just dirty water.

Try carefully loosening your deck pumpout cap (when I say carefully, I mean carefully - you could wind up with a "brown guyser" blowing out the pumpout fitting if the pressure is high enough - and you could get a face full.)

Once it has been removed and the pressure relieved, chances are the toilet will flush properly. If it does, that will guarantee that the vent line is plugged up and needs to be unclogged.

Also, if the vent line is plugged up, you won't be able to pump out the tank. Air must come into the tank as it empties. If it can't, you won't get any suction at the pumpout, and the tank won't empty.
 
Hmmm . . . I do empty my tank myself at pump out and never had anything gush out or any problems getting it out fully. After pumping out, the tank meter shows empty tank?

Also, wouldn't flushing be difficult if the vent is clogged and there would always be bubbles coming out because of built-up pressure?

If we use the head often like over weekends with the whole family, after the initial "priming" with 4-6 flushes, the head flushes totally normal with no bubbles. And the dirty water back-up is less, the more you use it the more it diminishes. Only after a certain period of non-use (sometimes half a day, sometimes more) do I have "re-prime" the head and the dirty water starts to come back.

Any ideas?

Thanks, David
 
David, another thought just popped into my head - with the internal vented loop, the vent fitting on that loop may be plugged up, and isn't working. It has a spring-loaded check valve on it, to stop siphoning in either direction when the toilet stops flushing. Might be worthwhile to pull the head out from the wall and check it. Also, wouldn't hurt to have the joker valves replaced at the same time - they're due to be replaced.
 
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