Stony Point Waterfront development

HOGAN

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From today's Journal News:

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Prospect of condos at Stony Point marinas makes waves
By AKIKO MATSUDA
THE JOURNAL NEWS
(Original Publication: March 23, 2007)

Potentially affected waterfront properties
Willow Cove Marina: 22.3 acres
Stony Point Bay Marina: 14.52 acres
Patsy's Bay Marina: 6.7 acres
Bell Harbor Landing: 8.3 acres
Source: Stony Point Assessor's Office

STONY POINT - Mega-developer Martin Ginsburg's interest in developing waterfront has stirred concerns, as well as expectations, among property owners along the Hudson River.

Among the owners of the four marinas that sit in the path of the proposal, at least one would resist the plan because he said he would rather develop the area on his own.

Ginsburg is interested in acquiring riverfront properties, including three marinas on Hudson Drive and one on Beach Road, to turn them into a condominium complex, as his company, Ginsburg Development Cos. LLC of Valhalla, has been doing in other towns and villages along the river, including an 850-unit condominium complex in Haverstraw village.

Representatives of the company made a presentation at a recent Town Board workshop this month.

The company proposed that the town form a commission to start studying the project, hiring a planner at the company's cost.

The Town Board tabled its decision on the matter to take more time to listen to property owners.

Supervisor Phil Marino said he was going to invite property owners along the river to the next workshop meeting, at 7:30 p.m. April 4, at the Rho building in Letchworth Village.

"I want to listen to the local people who live there and marina owners," Marino said. "I want to have an opportunity to question them and have all the board members ask questions to find out what their feelings are on the proposed project."

Marina owners, such as Mike Inserra of Patsy's Bay Marina on Hudson Drive, said they would be willing to sell the marina for the right offer.

"The problem is our taxes are so high that we cannot make a living here anymore," said Inserra, who has owned the marina for about six years. "It takes a lot of money to run a marina. It's not as profitable as everybody thinks it is."

Donna Lacoparra, whose husband, Frank, owns Bell Harbor Landing on Beach Road, said the couple would be happy to sell the marina to create a housing development.

"We think it would be great for the town, and we'd love to be a part of it," Lacoparra said, adding that rising gasoline prices have hurt the marina's clientele and that the 150-slip marina had been operating with a 50 percent occupancy. "It'll be great to sell."

But boaters such as Benny Leto, 53, of Congers said he would not want to lose marinas in Stony Point.

"I don't like it," Leto said of Ginsburg's plan. "I don't like it because it would cost more for the boaters to keep their boats here. A lot of them would get squeezed out."

Ed Schultz, 61, a longtime boater and a mechanic for the Stony Point Bay Marina and Yacht Club on Hudson Drive, said he didn't think the area was suitable for condominiums.

"Roads and utilities would be overburdened," Schultz said. "When Beach Road is flooded, there is only one way in and out of this area."

Tony Santos, manager of the Stony Point Bay Marina, also said he didn't think condominiums would work in the area.

"Who the hell wants to live between the railroads?" Santos said of the CSX railroad along the river. "Do you want to live right next to the railroads because you have a view of the water?"

Santos added that he didn't want to lose his job as a marina manager.

His employer, Bill Price, owner of the Stony Point Bay Marina, declined a request for comment, Santos said.

Wayne Corts, owner of one of the four marinas, Willow Cove Marina on Hudson Drive, said this week that he would rather develop the area on his own.

"My vision here is to do a beautiful community," Corts said this week. "I could do a beautiful job here with 100 percent confidence."

Corts, a former Rockland resident, is also a developer, who built the Greens of Woodbury, 63 luxury homes in Orange County.

He has made no formal proposal for the Stony Point property, but he said he would be interested in building 250 to 350 units, including affordable housing for volunteers, rental units and luxury condominiums.

Corts said residents would have access to the waterfront because the community would include a municipal marina and a small commercial district with a cafe and restaurants.

Inserra said he and other owners were concerned that Ginsburg's plan would prompt the town to condemn their property using an eminent domain procedure.

Marino said he would not use those means for a developer to build a project.

"I am steadfastly opposed to use eminent domain to profit another enterprise," Marino said.

"If that affects the town, then I look at it very carefully," the supervisor said, "but to condemn property to make it easier for a developer to do a project, I have very serious reservations about that."
 
Interesting article Mike. Some of the comments are rather telling.

One very funny one is this; "Lacoparra said, adding that rising gasoline prices have hurt the marina's clientele and that the 150-slip marina had been operating with a 50 percent occupancy."

Belle Harbor is at 50% because the owner is very good at driving business away with unusual behavior. Plus the place is a dive! I'm sure things will improve as the season opens up but it seems SPBM is at less than 50% paid summer occupancy. Seems bad service is contagious!
 
Yeah, I spent two summers at Belle Harbor, between the drunks unplugging my boat and using my outlet, the docks falling apart, and the low water, I couldn't take it any more.

I guess very few of these guys realize how important maintaining the marina is.
 
Say goodbye to the marina district!!!!

Wayne will try to do his own thing and probably will, and the other 3 are all ready to cash out.

Not a good day for Stony Point boaters, time is the enemy now.

Jonathan
 
Not to mention the impact on those of us who live in Stony Point! So far I have not talked to anyone in favor of this, hopefully the residents can stop it. If not, it will be the last straw to drive many away.
 
Marinas contribute to the tax base without putting large demands on infrastructure such as needing more schools and teachers. Another 30-40% tax increase shouldn't be THAT big a deal!
 
It's hard work running a marina so you really can't blame these guys for wanting to cash out. The more I read about this, the more I realize how fortunate we are in Croton where the Village owns most of its Hudson riverfront.

You would think the developer would want to keep some of the slips available too as there is money in dockominiums. Too bad the town couldn't buy one of those marinas and keep it as a public-use boat club.
 
If the development does come, one thing that will come with it as well will be higher slip prices.

Not just in the Stony Point marina distric but at Pennybridge and in Haverstraw too.

Think about all of the winter land storage space that will be lost as well. Not a pretty picture. For the bigger boats.

Jonathan
 
Is the town of Stony Point not in a position to buy the marinas out like Croton? That might be an interesting alternative...
 
I don't think we could afford to buy a pack of cigarettes here in Stony Point these days!
 
As the Governor of B dock I promise, Slip fees will be competitive!
Oh and "Read my Lips, No More New Taxes"
 
Time to sell and get out of boating I think. Even Florida is loosing marinas.
 
We will find our ways to survive. Skip a meal or 2. Heck I should do that anyhow. I will just have to make the wife walk to work instead of driving. Lets see if she leaves 10 hours early and walks 4 MPH she should make it on time...

Sell, Never I say...

It is getting harder on us but boating is a big item in our area and I just don’t see it getting to the point of having to give it up. As for the price going up. Every thing else is and the cost of operating the marinas are as well. These Marina owners are not making millions off of us, that’s for sure.

If enough people out there are really worried about loosing the marina space they should all team up and form a corporation as SPBM did years ago. Pool the money together as a group, secure a loan and make an offer on one of the marinas. Money does talk, the best offer would most likely get it. In the field of work I do privatization was a major problem several years ago and a group I know of teamed up and put a proposal in to run the facility. They one and saved there jobs. It can be done and in any one of those marinas I am sure you have a large field of talent that would make it work.

All I know is my boat should be getting wet soon and I am ready to go have a drink or two. Hopefully all will work out in the marina district and we all can enjoy our summers on the Hudson, one of the most beutiful rivers around....
 
Getting out of boating is sad enough, but the way property taxes are going people are having to get out of their houses! It gets to a point where even if you don't have to sell, you have to really ask yourself "do I really want to pay these kinds of taxes or would I be better off with more of my money in my pocket somewhere else". That is where I and most people I know are right now and these proposed condos won't help.

IMHO, the smartest thing to have done was never have built that golf course that is now sucking the life out of us. There may be a time that it is profitable but Stony Point is not fiscally sound and has not been for a long time. It's just one more nail in the town coffin of mismanagement. A more viable approach would have been to purchase these marinas! Therby allowing us to preserve our waterfront, renovate to attract tourism, and continue operating the marinas as town docks with little to no load on the town infrastructure. Seems to me they would pay for themselves and create a much needed positive cash flow to the town. The loss in tax base could surely be made up and greatly surpassed.
 
Judy,
1st of all, what about the 15th...you gonna be there?????

Taxes is a problem for the North Rockland area, Mirant has really stuck it to you guys in a bad way. And they are still trying to do more damage. And in the next year there will be the loss of the lovett plant. Im not sure there is any way out of that mess. And its only going to get worse.

I am not really sure the town taking the marina district over would help out. There are large expenses to the operation of the marina district and it looks like alot of major repairs are needed. Then there is the water issue which has to be addressed in the next few years. It does need someone with alot of love for boating to come in and make it work. There are so many possibilities that could help the area. This area could be a large transit area as well as the large amount of slips that are there. Im sure the summer traffic to the local stores has to increase with the marinas. Put some water front resturants in and perhaps some sort of weekend entertainment that would make the area more interesting.
 
Hey Butch, I sent you an email from here on BE the other day - did you get it???

I've sent quite a few emails lately from BE to different ROs and not gotten a response. Perhaps no one wants to talk to me. Or perhaps they are not going through, so I thought I'd better check...
 
Pete, I got your email, and I responded.
 
I was thinking that maybe you let the developer build the condos, but part of the deal would be that the developer has to give the boat slips to the town and the town then rents them to you guys.

Walter
 
Yes Pete I got it, I thought I sent one back but my firewall has been messing up so It may be in limbo....So is Steven...
 
No, can't make the 15th Butch. Wish I could!

There are lot's of things that could be done to the Riverfront, condos are far from the only possibility. And with condos come great expense not the least of which are more schools & teachers. Maybe the town owning the docks is not the way to go, but neither are condos. That will serve to make Ginsburg richer but will not do a thing to better Stony Point or anyone already living here. Honestly, how much longer can "normal" wage earners live in this town or even many places in Rockland County period. I can see Stony Point someday being the "land of 6,000+sf
houses". Something really needs to happen. We are still comfortable and God willing will be for a long time BUT, we are at that point where we are questioning if its worth it to sink SO MUCH money into taxes. A good 95% of the people we know feel the same. Its a tough call for sure!
 
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