water deck, whats your take on this

B

bLank

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A Friends survey. He is concerned over these findings. My understanding is to cut away the glass underneath the deck and dry out with heat lamps, fans etc. It's a 2003 boat!!!!!!!
Copied as follows...........
We tested the bottom hull, top sides and deck with our Tremex moisture meter and found all meter results to be within acceptable limits except for the port side deck beginning in line with the middle of the second port light leading aft to the fuel fill cap.

Let us say that water permeates the hull laminate all the time, passing through the laminate to the interior of the vessel, mostly in the bilge area, and subsequently passes out through the vessel's ventilation system. This permeation is normal and will not become a problem unless the water, for unknown reasons, mixes with the water soluble components of the resin.

Should such mixing occur, then blisters may appear because the water mixed with the water-soluble components of the resin creates a molecule larger than before. The molecule cannot pass through the laminate because it is too large and thus wants to back-out to the exterior hull, and once again, because the molecule is too large, it cannot.
This causes a blister to appear on the hull exterior as pressure builds and the molecule tries to pass through the laminate. Usually blisters appear between the gelcoat and first layer of fiberglass mat. So, a dry hull is better than a wet hull, although a wet hull is not necessarily a reason to be concerned. We consider moisture content readings not exceeding 0.5% percent relative as being acceptable. The vessel's laminate in way of the bottom hull, topsides and deck meet the 0.5% percent criteria except for the portside side deck where moisture readings were recorded in the ninety (90%) percent and one hundred (100%) range indicating the core was very wet. We suspect rainwater is passing through deck hardware saturating the core. We recommend all deck hardware in way of the portside be removed and the area dried thoroughly. The deck hardware should be reinstalled using new bedding compound
 
i'm not sure i get the part where it says that permeation is normal... hmmm... normal for water to get in the boat ?

concern is not blisters but core delamination... what kind of core. if balsa, it will rot and the deck will become soft.

i disagree with the part about just rebedding the fittings... If the deck is cored, then the core should be removed in the area of the fitting, the holes filled with resin and then drilled with the fasterners installed in solid glass, not core.

simply rebedding the fittings will result in the same problem down the road.
 
Wow, I'm a surveyor, I'de love to know who wrote that one. Better yet, I don't want to know.
The only part that will absorb water is the core and it ain't dripping thru and and just drying out, first if it stays wet enough, long enough, it separates the core from the laminate. I have also never seen a blister on a deck. Is it possible, I guess, but I never seen one.
Heres the bottom line....
As long as your not falling through the deck and as long as its not flexing when walking on it, rebed the leaking fittings have resin injected in soft areas for a quick fix and live with it. If you want it done right, bring it to a qualified repair facility. In the Northeast it will cost you $400-$500/sq ft. and up to repair it the right way.
Good luck!
 
I agree with you guys! I don't get the surveyors comments. There was no clear repair recommended so my friend is at a bit of a loss of where to go from here. This boat is a 03 ******, seems kinda new to have this 100% reading. To simply re-bed doesn't seem as if it would deal with the moisture issue. Gary I don't remembering him saying there was any soft spots but should we assume if the moisture is not removed it's most likely a future problem?
 
actually, this reads likes a template survey... something that get reused over and over and just edited.

if the decks feel solid, he could adress the leaks and let the core as is, at least for now. but as mentioned, rebeding is not enough. need to drill larger holes, feel with epoxy and the drill again and install the fasteners. This way if water makes it by the sealant, it will not get in the core.

did the surveyor at least sound the wet area ? this is more important than just a meter reading...

another concern would be the other fittings. even if dry right now, the sealant will eventually let water in if the fittings were improperly installed (in the core)
 
Pascal is right. Lets face it there's three things he can do. Live with it as is and hope it don't get any worse, quick fix with injection and rebedding, or complete fix by lifting the deck and replacing wet core. At the least he should get something off the price of the vessel with a wet deck. Don't forget everything is negotiable. Have a repair facility give an estimate for repair based on the square footage of the wet meter readings. You'll probably be shocked at the repair price. And don't forget, if the deck is lifted, it might be more extensive then the meter shows. How long is he going to keep the boat? Don't forget when he goes to sell it, the next surveyor will detect it and the new buyer will expect some money off his asking price. I know its hard to believe an 03 boat has a wet deck, but all you need is one deck fitting not sealed correctly. I won't say the brand name, but I've seen wet decks and hull sides on $250K, 2005 boats.
 
Ya know, I'm getting thin skinned with idiots who install deck hardware this way. Assuming a core, the method Pascal has recommended is the right way of doing it.

If this was hardware installed by the mfg, its about time we started naming names and getting out some free advertising on their behalf. This is just stupid and not a cost issue. It doesn't cost much to do it right.

bp
 
Thanks for information. I agree 100%. My advise to him is he put it in the lap of a good yard for their recommendations then make his decision. Lets suppose all is well now and those fittings didn't leak prior to a survey. Obviously the manufacturer didn't install the hardware correctly as so many other manufacturers do improperly as well. Down the road they are going to leak! So to suggest boat owners survey their boats every couple years may not be unorthidox. I know there are standards for wiring why not standards for hardware installation?
 
Ghost, I suspect it would be alot easier to name the ones who did it right! I have always loved my Bayliners but not one of them had the fittings/rails installed properly. In repairing a bowrail stanchion on my 2000 28 Classic I found the holes were not even sealed where they entered the deck. I mean to NOTHING!
 
I agree with Pascal that the deck hardware needs to be removed, and the holes drilled out, filled with epoxy and redrilled and then rebeded, with the core isolated. But, if the deck core is that saturated, you will not be able to dry it out with any reasonable method--the best would be heat and vacuum pump, with multiple holes in one side of the deck. Even that is probably not adequate if there has been water intrusion for any peroid of time. The best way is to remove the deck, recore and bed properly. I just did this on a cockpit which was 48 sq feet (6 x 8 feet)--using Nadicore (Honeycomb synthetic)replacing balsa core and an extra layer of mat on the inside (lower glass layer of the deck)--and then rebuilding the upper deck, thicker than the origional deck, with two layers of 18 oz biaxial cloth. We did not have to replicate the non skid pattern, since the origional was just thickened resin laid on with a roller. If you have to relay the patterned non skid, it will be conserably mores expensive. The old non skid can be relaid--and in some cases this is the most cost effective. If you have to make a mold for the deck or replicate large amounts of nonskid this also adds considerably to the costs. I personally feel that repairs should be done with epoxy--and the core sealed--we seal even the synthetic cores. The cost of doing this repair was about $2000. This works out to about $42 dollars a square foot. I can see that some repairs of a deck could be $100 a square foot--but the $400 to $500 a square foot seems a bit high. In the case I cited, it is a little hard to separate the exact costs, since there were other repairs done at the same time. This was also a 2003 boat, only used two seasons. I am aware of several 2007 boats less than 6 months old, with deck or core rot. These boats are being recored by the builder.

I agree that the majority of builders do not do it properly--and some names would surprise folks, in that they are not cheap boats. Unfortunately many boats are built for profit--and the relitatively simple steps and better materials which would increase longivity are short cutted....

There is also the ethics of a quick and dirty repair and then selling the boat. I would not do that. A good surveyor should be able to pick up on the quality of repair--but again often this is missed. (and another place where the Ultra Sound testing would be of great value).

It is not clear to me if the friend who had the boat surveyed is buying the boat, is having a value and condition survey for insurance or selling the boat. If he is buying--I would run. If it either a value or presale survey, I would contact the builder--and attempt a warantee claim. The above mentioned repairs which we did were 100% paid for by the builder--and all of the potential problems were repaired--so that the boat is better than new.
 
Bob, I don't know the costs in Florida for deck repair, but up north in NYC area, a complete lift the deck, replace bad core and replace the deck is 4-500/sq ft. Can you get it done cheaper, sure, but in quality yards that's the going rate.
 
My labor rate in Pensacola is about half of what it probably is in NYC--but we dont' have unions or "supervisors" in the boat yards here. The boat with the problem, came from New York. My hotel room for the one night I had to stay there before heading back South: The AAA rate was $250 a night--but the "only room left" was $350 a night--and the internet was $25 extra! No thanks, I'll stick with a place with 12 months a year boating, where I can keep the boat in my backyard and honest crafts people who put in a full day's work so that the boat is better than when built.

Take care
 
I wouldn't go as far as saying anyone is dishonest. Everything up north does cost more. Welcome to the big city! Its snowing here right now and my boat still needs shrink wrap!
 
So here is an update. The seller was obviously surprised by this information so he hired his own surveyor to do moisture readings on the suspected areas. They came up with zero.This surveyor also tested some other vessels in the yard and came up with positive readings on some of those boats to show his equipment is working properly. My friend is going to hire a third surveyor to recheck moisture readings. He mentioned something I thought was interesting. The original tests were done in the morning and the side decks which showed the 100% reading were on the shady side of the boat. Could it have been dew on the deck surface which caused these 100% readings?
 
this is exactly why when i had a pre purchase survey done on my boat, i discussed things with the surveyor. He said he could check things with a moisture meter or by sounding... i picked sounding... MM can give high readings which must be interpreted by taking a number of factors into account including weather conditions, how long the boat has been out of the water, etc...
 
I would call the first surveyor back--and have him re-do the reading when the boat is dry. The only way to know is to do a core sample. But there are multiple problems with moisture meters.
 
Follow up. The buyer hired another surveyor, this guy came recommended and had references. He found no moisture issues and percussion soundings were good. He did recommend all hardware to be re-bedded to avoid future issues. My friend bought the boat! Thanks again for all the great information and interesting reads.
 
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