GM,and i hope we all enjoyed the season!i seem to have some water in my oil,i constantly check it and i believe the problem happened in the last 2 weeks(the weather took a nose dive last week 30's)i have a 1999 volvo penta 5.0Gipwtr 300 hrs, new manifolds and elbows in 2016(used 4 seasons 120 hrs)raw salt water cooled(fresh water flush out) yesyerday i did 2 oil changes to avoid engine damage, oil came out darker every time(only 5 quarts came out,not alot of water in there)first oil change i ran it and fog the hell out of it,second i didnt start it up).boat is very well maintained and always runs like a champ,i read that after 5 years manifolds have a 50% chance of failure,looks like i need new manifolds and elbows?anything else i can do to prevent engine damage?how else can water get in oil(i am the 2 nd owner,boat always runs at 160,never past 4000 rpm,tbi,no codes in ECM,oil usually comes out like new when changing) ty for your help,Pete
water in oil-like coffee very dark,my 1999 gs 249
- Thread starter bannditt
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thanks for you reply,the reason i think its the manifold/risers is that the boat runs and idle fine,a blown or defective head gasket or intake manifold should make a rough idle,or at least leave a code in the ECM.oil cooler is a maybe,i can pull it off and take a look.what should it look like?i removed the manifolds and filled the water passages with water,the water level seems to be holding,is that a true test?(4 years old salt water cooled)btw is it normal to see rust in the exhaust manifold ports (on the manifold,part # barr omc 1-914035)ty Pete
Pull the plugs and see what they look like,
Search google for an image of a healthy spark plug from an engine that is running well and compare to yours.
It’s good that the motor will idle but don’t run it anymore until you figure out what’s wrong with it. The milkshake (water/oil mix) is not good for the running motor under any circumstances.
Since you’re taking the cooler off, see if there is a local radiator shop that can check it for you.
Re: your manifolds.
If you see rust in 4 year old Barr manifolds you should seriously consider replacing them regardless if they are the root of your present problem.
I’ve got no knowledge of OMC because I’ve only had Mercruiser, but if there is an OEM replacement option for your manifolds I would go for them instead of Barr if at all possible.
Search google for an image of a healthy spark plug from an engine that is running well and compare to yours.
It’s good that the motor will idle but don’t run it anymore until you figure out what’s wrong with it. The milkshake (water/oil mix) is not good for the running motor under any circumstances.
Since you’re taking the cooler off, see if there is a local radiator shop that can check it for you.
Re: your manifolds.
If you see rust in 4 year old Barr manifolds you should seriously consider replacing them regardless if they are the root of your present problem.
I’ve got no knowledge of OMC because I’ve only had Mercruiser, but if there is an OEM replacement option for your manifolds I would go for them instead of Barr if at all possible.
jvm225 , thanks, basic power marine, has a manifold/riser kit for under 750.00,barr, made in usa,. half price of volvo penta lol and i would still think 5 years at the best either way,two weeks ago i put in bad or too much fuel stabilizer the boat was stalling and not starting,(smell it right away in exhaust)i put in new plugs,cap,rotor,fuel filter and 30 gallons of 93 octane fuel and its fine,i had 120 hours on the old plugs and they we foul beyond recognition!after the tune up started right up and was fine 2 weeks later when winterizing water in oil.yes i have rust in exhaust ports in manifolds,,,,,should i still do compression test?ty pete
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- Sep 28, 2002
- RO Number
- 10314
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- 851
There is nothing at all wrong with Barr aftermarket manifolds, where you can get a leak is the gasket between the manifold and the elbow, this is a known weakness in both this and the previous gen Mercruiser wet exhaust joint, even if the manifolds and elbows have not rusted through you can have a leak there. For one thing in salt water there is no way you will not find rust in a manifold or elbow used for 4 years. Anytime you find water in the oil the first thing you should do is remove the spark plugs, disable the ignition system and crank the engine over; if you get water shooting out of any of the cyls it could be the exhaust but it also could be a blown head gasket or cracked head. So if you do get water then, checking the exhaust is a good first step. If it does not leak then you have to move on to other sources. If you got no water out of the cyls but you have water in the oil, then you can also have a leaky intake gasket (would put water in a cyl and oil) or the area right under the thermostat housing in the intake (water passage between the 2 cyl heads) can rot out and this will put water right into the cam valley (this would put water in the oil but not cyls).
If your exhaust does not leak, but you have water in the oil, I'd do a compression test, this may tell you if you have a leaky head gasket, and then drain the cooling system and pressurize it with air. If it does not hold pressure, then its leaking somewhere the challenge is to find where.
I had water in the oil and in 2 cyls a few years ago. I tested the exhaust and it was not from that. While comp test was close to normal, checking for air bubbles in the cooling water revealed that combustion gas was getting into the cooling water, which means there is a breach in the head gasket and/or cracked cyl head. I took it apart and found both head gaskets blown right next to a water passage. I had the heads checked out and both had cracks from a previous overheat. I wound up buying a set of reman heads because the block was still good and putting it all back together with new (Barr) exhaust. The challenge here is in your diagnostics and you really want the water out as soon as possible, changing oil as often as needed to prevent cyl wall rusting and damage to bearings.
A quick test for exhaust gas getting into the cooling water is to replace the manifold feed hoses with clear plastic hose. Run the engine on the water hose till it warms up enough to open the thermostat. Once the 'stat opens, water will flow out of the block into the manifolds, if this water is aireated, than you may have either a blown HG or cracked head.
some pix of the teardown and re-assembly, last one is a vid of it up and running....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tr23hyy6srwfnqv/4.3 manifold removal.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k18krrafa34899f/4.3%20cleaned%20up%20block.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8fhnjbtutfjejkm/4.3 reman cyl head 2.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yyytu26xgohers/installed%20reman%20cyl%20heads.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/55j6h4dd1u8fv0k/top end rebuild 4.3 test run.MOV?dl=0
If your exhaust does not leak, but you have water in the oil, I'd do a compression test, this may tell you if you have a leaky head gasket, and then drain the cooling system and pressurize it with air. If it does not hold pressure, then its leaking somewhere the challenge is to find where.
I had water in the oil and in 2 cyls a few years ago. I tested the exhaust and it was not from that. While comp test was close to normal, checking for air bubbles in the cooling water revealed that combustion gas was getting into the cooling water, which means there is a breach in the head gasket and/or cracked cyl head. I took it apart and found both head gaskets blown right next to a water passage. I had the heads checked out and both had cracks from a previous overheat. I wound up buying a set of reman heads because the block was still good and putting it all back together with new (Barr) exhaust. The challenge here is in your diagnostics and you really want the water out as soon as possible, changing oil as often as needed to prevent cyl wall rusting and damage to bearings.
A quick test for exhaust gas getting into the cooling water is to replace the manifold feed hoses with clear plastic hose. Run the engine on the water hose till it warms up enough to open the thermostat. Once the 'stat opens, water will flow out of the block into the manifolds, if this water is aireated, than you may have either a blown HG or cracked head.
some pix of the teardown and re-assembly, last one is a vid of it up and running....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tr23hyy6srwfnqv/4.3 manifold removal.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k18krrafa34899f/4.3%20cleaned%20up%20block.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8fhnjbtutfjejkm/4.3 reman cyl head 2.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yyytu26xgohers/installed%20reman%20cyl%20heads.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/55j6h4dd1u8fv0k/top end rebuild 4.3 test run.MOV?dl=0
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- RO Number
- 10314
- Messages
- 851
I like fogging oil, it is made for that purpose.
Did you verify that your old exhaust was leaking?
Pay particular attention to the sealing surfaces of the manifolds and elbows, put a straight edge across them and make sure they are really flat. I used Permatex Aviation Sealer on the Barr gaskets for the manifold to elbow joint and had no leaks. For the manifold to the head, that gasket goes on dry.
There's a trick for making it easier to line up new manifolds, use a longer bolt, same thread, cut off the head, cut a slot in the end to make it easy to remove, you thread in 2 of these to keep the gasket and manifolds lined up, then install the rest of the bolts, finally remove the 2 headless bolts with a screwdriver and install the last 2 regular bolts.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xduba114x...iht headless bolts to line it all up.JPG?dl=0
Did you verify that your old exhaust was leaking?
Pay particular attention to the sealing surfaces of the manifolds and elbows, put a straight edge across them and make sure they are really flat. I used Permatex Aviation Sealer on the Barr gaskets for the manifold to elbow joint and had no leaks. For the manifold to the head, that gasket goes on dry.
There's a trick for making it easier to line up new manifolds, use a longer bolt, same thread, cut off the head, cut a slot in the end to make it easy to remove, you thread in 2 of these to keep the gasket and manifolds lined up, then install the rest of the bolts, finally remove the 2 headless bolts with a screwdriver and install the last 2 regular bolts.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xduba114x...iht headless bolts to line it all up.JPG?dl=0
ok,did a compression test today,cylinders 1,3,5 70 psi,cyl.7 90 psi,cyl.2 80 psi,cyl.4 90 psi,cyl.6 80 psi. cylinder 8 had so much fuel spitting out i could not get a reading(240psi)i tried plugging a line by the fuel filter,and empty the filter,but it didnt help,i removed all plugs and cranked the motor to clear the cylinders,no sign of rv anti freeze,oil looks much better,i will research how to cut the fuel(tbi)or plug the 2 lines going into the throttle body.any idea why so much fuel out #8 cylinder?i know compression is low but consistent and it is a year old engine
Throttle should be wide open. Even better is with warmed engine but that can be painful.
You said the crank oil was contaminated with water, but also said cyl. # 8 was pushing out a lot of gas.
Just asking: Could the oil really have been diluted with gas , not water? ( As in possibly leaking mechanical fuel pump diaphragm pushing flow-by gas into the carb's j-valve?)
I'd think you would notice the difference but the report of #8 made me wonder.
hey sandy thanks for your reply,i dont have a carb.TBI system ,there looks like only one gas feed to filter,to low pressure pump to the fuel cell to the high pressure pump and into the throttle body,in still have the old oil,i can take a wiff.what do you think about the low compression?to you think a warm engine and open throttle body will increase PSI?the engine is 21 years old!i have the manifold off and i see a lot of fluid shooting out the #8 exhaust port on the head,gonna try to get a sample of it,995 sure its gas as it fills up the comp.tester
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- RO Number
- 10314
- Messages
- 851
Ideally you would want to do the comp test on a warm engine, throttle plate wide open, ignition disabled. But those readings are very low. It is possible you had a leaking injector causing the engine to run very rich and diluted the oil. I'd try to get it running if possible to do a warm comp test. Then if you get low readings still, squirt motor oil in each cyl on by one and repeat. If results improve, bad rings if not bad valves. You can also do a cyl leak down test which is more thorough. I had better comp test results on my old engine even when it blew both H/Gs! After the rebuild all cyls were from 160-175.
hey thanks for your reply,i did the compression test over today correctly all cylinders were between 110 and 120 psi which for a 21 year old motor aint bad( however could not heat up the motor as manifolds and risers are off,i did notice rv anti freeze shooting out the # 8 exhaust port of the head,(very little)intake manifold gasket bad?