What core/stringer method/materials are the best?

matt_unique

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Mar 28, 2007
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25670
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I'm researching my next boat. I'm looking for a 24-25' pilot house boat with a fully closed cabin and zero canvas. I'm also looking for a stand up head.

I have found only a few brands available on the East Coast with this criteria. Basically C-Dory and Orca is all I can think of at the moment. (These are West Coast boats available on the East Coast).

Parker does not offer a stand up head, same deal with Baha, all the mainstream production boats (Sea Ray, Larson, Maxum, Boston Whaler, etc., etc.) use canvas between the windshield and the roof, or they do not offer a fully closed cabin without the use of canvas....

C-Dory uses balsa for their core. There are several late model owners dealing with core damage because most boat manufacturers do not properly seal anything.

Orca is appealing so far because they do not use wood in their construction and they offer a lifetime warranty on the hull. They use a foam core between fiberglass.

I would appreciate your recommendations.

--Matt
 
"What core/stringer method/materials are the best?"

IMHO, all of the methods have different strengths and weaknesses, and all require maintenance. I honestly have no particular preference for the materials. I DO however get quite picky when it comes to how those materials have been installed/manufactured/cared for.

About the only hull product that I am less enthused about is the vinyl resins used below the waterline, without an epoxy barrier coat.

As far as the mfgr properly sealing,that is nothing new, or specific to C-Dory. "They all do that". It is one of the greatest joys and paradoxes in boating that a ( all ) brand new boat needs a lot of maintenance prior to being splashed.
 
I would avoid balsa core and all structural wood. They are not necessary in modern construction
 
This takes a little explaination-I happen to be one of the owners who had core problems. This needs to be put in prospective. I recently purchased an "AS IS, WHERE IS" 2003 C Dory 25. I was aware of a bad survey--but I paid less than half of the value of the boat. What had happened, is that the cockpit floor was made of 1" balsa core. There are two cut outs for about 12" x 20" hatches and two 6" round inspection plates. These hatches were put in with silicone sealer; there was no attempt to seal the edge of the cutouts by the factory or the first owner (who was very nieve about boat maintance). At some point a "friend" jumped into the cockpit of this boat, and cracked the deck--the boat was covered under warantee, but the owner didn't contact the dealer or factory. (There may have been reasons to not have confidence in the dealer). There was also a question about the transom--at survey. The factory was contacted about that, and would have paid to repair it. The reason the cockpit deck cracked is that the top layer was only 3/4oz mat, with fairly thick gelcoat with additional Cabosil added to allow texturing with a roller. There was already rot in the deck core when it was jumped on. I do know that the boat was left open during at least two winters in New Jersy. Water and snow stood in the cockpit and moisture got into the core of the cockpit. This accellerated the deck core rot-and water intrusion into the deck core.

We cut out the entire bad area of the deck, (about 30"x width of the cockpit) and put in 1" Nida-core (this is a poly prop/fiberglass mat composit hex cell hollow core material). We used the 3/4 oz mat and 18 oz roving bottom layer, plus another 3/4oz layer on the bottom, the Nida-core and then 3/4oz matt, plus 12 oz bi-axial material with polyester to laminate an entire new deck (also covering the old good balsa core). There were also a number of screws into the top of the bottom of the hull--(cored with one inch of balsa). One of these screws had some moisture in the core around it. All of the screws in the hull were removed. In a few circumstances, an epoxy core was inserted and a screw re-inserted (like in bilge pumps screwed to the bottom of the hull). The other screw's holes were drilled out, undercut and the core filled with epoxy filler. The screws were replaced with fiberglass tabs, to hold the "furniture" in place. (with a fillet between the cabnet and the bottom of the hull). We rebuilt part of the transom--although there were two cracks in the splash well, and into the hull to deck joint on the top of the transom--there was no water intrustion into the core of the transom. (We took test drillings, did find a void at the bottom, where the balsa was not continued under the wood core of the transom--and filled this with glass and epoxy.) I spent about 10 full days and a gal I had working for me also spent about 12 days working on the boat--and it is better than new.

C Dory has been using cored bottom of the hull for about 30 years. There have been no known failures of these hull bottoms, including boats falling off trailers, rear ended, and thrown on jetties near the Columbia bar (all of these boats were rebuit and are used today). One boat was recently cut in half and extended 2 feet, using balsa core! A pretty good record!

The reason that C Dory uses Balsa core is that the boats have a semidory bottom--basically flat. Solid glass would be prohibitly heavy--the boats are light and thus perform well. The key is that there is plenty of glass over and under the core. AND--you never put a hole in the core! (the company changed hands--and I guess this mantra was not passed on.) They know this now--and the company has stood behind the repairs we did, despite a "non transferiable" 5 year hull warantee. I am aware of at least one other minor core problem--same cause.

There are a number of core materials--any of the woods are subject water intrusion. However, any of the synthetic can also have problems, such as core break down. Wood is still an excellent material--BUT we have to know how to protect it. In our project of looking at cored boats with ultrasound, we cut up 20 cored boats (hurricane damaged) and core delamination was extremely rare (basically non existant)--even boats which had fracture of the hull and water intrusion from the hurricane damage.
 
after water intrusion balsa may rot and the damage spread as may be the case Bob relates. This is also true with any wood structural member. Synthetic materials, foam etc cant support rot so damage is confined to the impact area.
 
What I observed in evaluating over 200 hurricane damaged boats, is that synthetic cores, had significant impact--for example a Camano 28 (called a 31)--had several dents in the side of the hull, where the core had been crushed, and the outer glass was still intact. There was also a good sized area where the hull was stove in and breeched by another piling. I was on board a 55 foot cuter, which was balsa core construction (actually planked with 1 3/4 x 1 3/4" balsa strip planked epoxy glued, aluminum nailed to hold the planks--and then glassed 3/8" outside and 1/4" inside). We hit a container at 8 knots in 8 to 10 foot seas. The hull was not breeched--the outer glass was torn, and breeched. The Balsa took most of the impact, and was not breeched-but the inner glass was delaminated, but not breeched. We sailed the boat several hundred miles with no problems--and when the repair was made the area of impact was the only significant area of damage of the core. I do not believe that other core material would have fared as well as the balsa.

Defiantely there are places for all of the core materials--but wood still has plenty of very signinficant applications where it is superior than other core materials.
 
The problem with core failure is that frequently there is not the immediate evidence of damage and prompt repair that Bob relates from sudden impact or storm damage. Instead, something fails, probably due to sloppy workmanship, and allows water intrusion. By the time it is discovered water has wicked over a wide area and balsa rot has spread like apples in a barrel. Foam core will also allow water transport if it was not properly done as will balsa but it wont rot and allow migration of rot.

Some years ago I imersed core samples for six months. there was no change in the foam samples, try that with balsa.
 
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