What should I look for in a 36 Gulfstar

Billylll

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quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Bill1

Take a good look at the condition of the wiring, thru hulls, steering gear, air conditioning equipment and any systems added on or reworked after the boat left the factory. Especially if the owner did the work themselves.

http://www.gulfstarownersclub.com

Capt Bill thanks for the link lots of great information there.
Bill




 

Billylll

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quote:

Originally posted by pdecat

Have you investigated the part availability for those engines??





Trans Atlantic Diesels (TAD) sells parts and a re-manufacturing service for the Perkins 4-236 85hp diesels that are in the boat.
Bill
 

pdecat

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I doubt there will be any big surprises to you. Good luck. IMO that is a good platform for what you want and making it up to Bill standards will keep you off the street for a while.
 

Billylll

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quote:

Originally posted by pdecat

I doubt there will be any big surprises to you. Good luck. IMO that is a good platform for what you want and making it up to Bill standards will keep you off the street for a while.





Thanks Bruce I appreciate the kind words. I'm hoping no major issues are discovered but the time to find them will be before I purchase the boat not after the fact. As far as my standards I have more knowledge than I did when I built Wireless One. I also will be simplifying W1 to prepare it for the average boater.
Whomever gets it will be getting a solid platform with upgraded almost new mechanical and electrical equipment.
They will also have one of only (2) 40 Sedan Bridges with a real hardtop.
I'll post my asking price and recent pictures after I have removed some of the systems that will be transferred to the trawler.
Bill
 

mixman

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quote:

Originally posted by Billylll

I'll post my asking price and recent pictures after I have removed some of the systems that will be transferred to the trawler.
Bill






You're going to need to rent a truck for that :)
 

chiropaul23

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Check out David Pascoe's site. He specifically discusses the older 43 Gulfstar which is very similar to the 36. Had Perkin's 4.236 on my last boat and engine is bulletproof but tends to be somewhat noisy and vibrates a bit more than the 6.354's that I had on an Atlantic trawler.
 

pdecat

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4 cyls do shake a lot more at low rpms than 6s unless they have balance shafts . Doesn't seem to harm them but do check motor mounts.
 

Billylll

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quote:

Originally posted by chiropaul23

Check out David Pascoe's site. He specifically discusses the older 43 Gulfstar which is very similar to the 36. Had Perkin's 4.236 on my last boat and engine is bulletproof but tends to be somewhat noisy and vibrates a bit more than the 6.354's that I had on an Atlantic trawler.





Thanks for the information. I had read Pascoe's comments on the 43 when I was investigating these trawlers about a year ago.
Mine will have the 4-236 85 hp engines.
Bill
 

Capt. Bill1

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quote:

Originally posted by pdecat

4 cyls do shake a lot more at low rpms than 6s unless they have balance shafts . Doesn't seem to harm them but do check motor mounts.






Changing to soft engine mounts and changing the trans to shaft coupler to a flexible type can go a very long way to isolating the transmission of engine/drive vibration to the boat.
 

Billylll

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quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Bill1

quote:

Originally posted by pdecat

4 cyls do shake a lot more at low rpms than 6s unless they have balance shafts . Doesn't seem to harm them but do check motor mounts.






Changing to soft engine mounts and changing the trans to shaft coupler to a flexible type can go a very long way to isolating the transmission of engine/drive vibration to the boat.






The trans couplers are already installed I remember seeing that when I was in the ER. Same with the engine mounts they looked like rubber. How soft or their condition is unknown to me at this point.
Bill
 

Al_Prisco

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Bill, In regard to the fluid samples: It does not matter if you don't have past history. When i pull fluids on a pre-purchase inspection after running the vessel under load, what my main concerns are is if the table of elements reflect excessive wear to a component or contamination from either fuel,coolant or seawater. Also if the vessel has been sitting for any long period of time,corrosion can develop in the cylinder walls creating excessive wear.
 

Billylll

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quote:

Originally posted by Al_Prisco

Bill, In regard to the fluid samples: It does not matter if you don't have past history. When i pull fluids on a pre-purchase inspection after running the vessel under load, what my main concerns are is if the table of elements reflect excessive wear to a component or contamination from either fuel,coolant or seawater. Also if the vessel has been sitting for any long period of time,corrosion can develop in the cylinder walls creating excessive wear.





Thanks Al that explanation is a good one and why I believe it is worth getting fluid samples.
Bill
 

pdecat

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Al some rust is not excessive wear. Often the test results will say change oil run and retest
Bill
Ask your friend at the diesel shop about it.

IMO single fluid tests can reveal serious problems such salt in oil or coolant in oil or high levels of some metals. What to do about the results is a different story. Not every out of range report is fatal. Some are, some are not that is why Bill advises that the trend is important. I have seen reports that say to stop running the unit, others say retest after oil change and running. With all due respect for Al's experience in survey, those are the comments you want to see from the diesel experts.
IMO we can know too much sometimes. No boat is perfect. A little lube oil iron from an unused boat or a little window leaking is usually curable and can be adjusted for in price.
 

pdecat

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The 30 second diesel test:

An important indicator of diesel health is dead cold start up, at reasonable ambient temperatures, then smoke and exhaust water flow. Four strokes should not smoke a lot when cold, al little smoke is common but both engines should smoke the same, no mosquito spraying here. Quick stating indicates good compression but again be cautions. Slow starts do not always mean low compression just an indicator to look further at compression and fuel system.

If diesels light up right away my opinion of their health goes very positive.

nb. You probably can not warm up diesels at the dock. they must be loaded to get cylinder temps high enough for smoke to go away.
 

Billylll

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quote:

Originally posted by pdecat

The 30 second diesel test:

An important indicator of diesel health is dead cold start up, at reasonable ambient temperatures, then smoke and exhaust water flow. Four strokes should not smoke a lot when cold, al little smoke is common but both engines should smoke the same, no mosquito spraying here. Quick stating indicates good compression but again be cautions. Slow starts do not always mean low compression just an indicator to look further at compression and fuel system.

If diesels light up right away my opinion of their health goes very positive.

nb. You probably can not warm up diesels at the dock. they must be loaded to get cylinder temps high enough for smoke to go away.





Thanks Bruce, having studied these smaller diesels for the last 2 years I agree with your comments. It's also a good reason for a sea trial that lasts longer then say 15 minutes. I wouldn't expect a boat that is almost 40 years old to be perfect. At the same time there are loop cruisers using the same vintage motors that are trouble free. I saw one spot where there looked to be some moisture intrusion under one of the salon windows. Tapping on the outside area revealed noting. The broker was closed Sunday and Monday and reopens tomorrow. I'm not expecting to hear anything back before Tuesday.
Once the offer is accepted and I have a signed contract I will post a link to the boat and I'll let my offer become public knowledge.
Then I will put Wireless One on the market sans many of the systems that are not needed for a weekend boater.
I'm excited but trying to remain neutral until the entire process is completed. They are all holes in the water we throw money at I know this one will allow me to do the type of cruising I have always wanted to do.
I can imagine myself in a nice toasty warm pilothouse (on a cold day) with my coffee cruising at or near hull speed and enjoying the view in comfort.
Bill
 

pdecat

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A beautiful dream, you will have to get some old salt clothes to fill out the image and learn some fancy rope work. No smoking pipe necessary any longer though.
 

Billylll

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quote:

Originally posted by pdecat

A beautiful dream, you will have to get some old salt clothes to fill out the image and learn some fancy rope work. No smoking pipe necessary any longer though.





I'll take it one step further cruising through the Dismal Swamp Canal.
Bill
 

Capt. Bill1

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quote:

Originally posted by Al_Prisco

Bill, In regard to the fluid samples: It does not matter if you don't have past history. When i pull fluids on a pre-purchase inspection after running the vessel under load, what my main concerns are is if the table of elements reflect excessive wear to a component or contamination from either fuel,coolant or seawater. Also if the vessel has been sitting for any long period of time,corrosion can develop in the cylinder walls creating excessive wear.






So what good are the samples if the fluids were just changed before the samples were taken? Or if the boat has sat unused and there for the oil as few if any run hours on it? And a good fluid analysis company is going to want to know the run history of the fluid and if the sample is of only one brand of fluid or a mix. Because what the fluid is composed of varies from brand to brand.

Most samples will show some contamination. But you have no way of knowing what is normal without the fluids history.

If the engine has any issues that might be leading towards a catastrophic failure you should see evidence of that on a good mechanical survey and proper test ride.

If you do spend the money for a fluid analysis at least make sure who ever does it at least does it right by taking the sample from the right point on the engine and that they do not cross contaminate the samples.

Be sure that when the mechanic does the engine surveys he/she runs the boat in its normal configuration. Meaning don't let him run it with the engine room hatches open when doing tests and high speed runs. Also make sure you run those engines for at least 10 min. at max RPM. If the owner or broker is reluctant to let that happen be wary of what they maybe trying to hide.
 

Billylll

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quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Bill1

quote:

Originally posted by Al_Prisco

Bill, In regard to the fluid samples: It does not matter if you don't have past history. When i pull fluids on a pre-purchase inspection after running the vessel under load, what my main concerns are is if the table of elements reflect excessive wear to a component or contamination from either fuel,coolant or seawater. Also if the vessel has been sitting for any long period of time,corrosion can develop in the cylinder walls creating excessive wear.






So what good are the samples if the fluids were just changed before the samples were taken? Or if the boat has sat unused and there for the oil as few if any run hours on it? And a good fluid analysis company is going to want to know the run history of the fluid and if the sample is of only one brand of fluid or a mix. Because what the fluid is composed of varies from brand to brand.

Most samples will show some contamination. But you have no way of knowing what is normal without the fluids history.

If the engine has any issues that might be leading towards a catastrophic failure you should see evidence of that on a good mechanical survey and proper test ride.

If you do spend the money for a fluid analysis at least make sure who ever does it at least does it right by taking the sample from the right point on the engine and that they do. It cross contaminate the samples.

Be sure that when the mechanic does the engine surveys he/she runs the boat in its normal configuration. Meaning don't let him run it with the engine room hatches open when doing tests and high speed runs. Also make sure you run those engines for at least 10 min. at max RPM. If the owner or broker is reluctant to let that happen be wary of what they maybe trying to hide.







Thanks Captain Bill I agree with running the engines as you suggest. Thank you for your expert opinions. Actually I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread.
Bill
 
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