What to Expect? Please Help..

Y

YAMADOG

Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
RO Number
14709
Messages
21
Okay,

My wife and I are looking at purchasing our first, relatively large, preowned vessel. It looks like we will be signing a contract on it (pending in person inspection, survey and sea trial) today or tomorrow (If all continues to go well). The Boat is in Florida, and we are in Maryland, first problem.

I will be present for the survey and sea trial, but I'm trying to gauge what to expect, and what needs to be lined up. The surveyor I believe I will use has been doing surveys for the past 7 years, at an annual rate of about 350 surveys a year. He came through the recommendation of a fellow boater who recently used him, and was happy with his work.

He lists allot of parameters, but engine compression testing is not one of them. Do I need to get a separate Mechanical Inspection? Here are his 14 points of inspection, per his website:

1. Infrared Thermal Inspection -- Uncover hull moisture intrusion, blisters, voids and delamination. See electrical faults and engine oil, fuel, water or exhaust leaks.

2. In-water Inspection -- Inspection of all on-board systems, electronics & safety systems. Infrared inspection of stringers, frames, bulkheads and decks.

3. Out of water Inspection -- Vessel exterior, thru-hulls and propulsion system checks including shaft and prop straightness test, rudder and keel inspections.

4. Moisture Meter Testing -- All exposed surface areas of vessel are tested for levels of moisture in hull material and confirmed by infrared.

5. Corrosion and Stray Current Meter Testing -- All motors, pumps, seacocks and thru-hulls are tested for proper bonding & protection against galvanic corrosion & stray current.

6. Barcol Hardness Testing -- Fiberglass reinforced plastic hulls are tested for proper cure hardness to meet regulations.

7. Sea Trial -- Vessel undergoes engine balance test, RPM testing, single engine testing, stethoscopic engine exam, back-down and vibration test.

8. Engine, Transmission & Generator Survey -- Cold inspection, exhaust system and cooling system analysis, check fluid levels and condition of engines and generators.

9. Engine Diagnostic Scan Tool & Manometer Test -- Engine diagnostic scan tool and monometer testing while underway at sea trial to determine condition and performance of marine engines.

10. Engine Safety Inspection -- Test for proper emergency shut down of engines and fuel systems, infrared engine inspection and humidity monitoring for vapors.

11. Complete Engine Gauge-Out Analysis -- Pressure and temperature gauges measure engine specifications for fuel, lubrication, cooling and air/exhaust systems.

12. Engine Oil Spectrometric Laboratory Analysis -- Samples of the vessel's engine oil, transmission fluids and genset oil are sent to laboratory for testing for wear metals & contaminants.

13. Diesel or Gasoline Fuel Laboratory Analysis -- Samples of the vessel's fuel supply are tested for algae and fungal contaminants that could clog the vessel's fuel lines.

14. Carbon Monoxide & Combustible Gas Monitoring -- Engine Room and all enclosed areas of vessel are monitored for levels of carbon monoxide and combustible gases in particles per million.

Any Thoughts or guidance? The Boat is located in the Tampa area, so still taking recommendations on surveyors, mechanical inspectors, etc as well. Thanks all..
 
What year and how big a boat is this you're looking at?
 
I would call and speak with him. Generally Surveyors do not do the compression checks, but have a mobile mechanic they work with who will., I'm having my mechanic do a mechanical check as well as the surveyor doing his checks on the sea trial. If the boat hasn't been run in a while, the compression checks should be done after the sea trial. The tough spot for you is that this is not local for you, the good thing is that there ae peoel on the board who are local.

Have you seen the boat first hand? SOunds like you haven't yet. Just be sure that you are aware of what expenses you incur as part of the buying process. In some cases, you may be responsible for returning the boat to its previous state if yuo back out of the deal.(For example, the boat is on the hard, the seller pays for dropping it in after you accept the land survey. If you then drop out, you may be liable to get the boat back on land.)
 
Tough position to be in. I also assume you haven't seen this boat yet yourself and are probably going by what the Broker is telling you.
First off..........I'd be awfully suspicious of a Surveyor that does about 350 Surveys a year. Think about it.....That's an average of 1 almost EVERY day......Make any sense to you?
Secondly....you're looking at a Saltwater Florida Boat and depending on the present cooling system this could run into ALOT of money reconditioning depending on what type of care it had before. The Florida environment isn't very kind to Boats to that go neglected at all.
How did you happen to come in contact with the Surveyor you'll be using?
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tanqueray

Tough position to be in. I also assume you haven't seen this boat yet yourself and are probably going by what the Broker is telling you.
First off..........I'd be awfully suspicious of a Surveyor that does about 350 Surveys a year. Think about it.....That's an average of 1 almost EVERY day......Make any sense to you?
Secondly....you're looking at a Saltwater Florida Boat and depending on the present cooling system this could run into ALOT of money reconditioning depending on what type of care it had before. The Florida environment isn't very kind to Boats to that go neglected at all.
How did you happen to come in contact with the Surveyor you'll be using?

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You are correct, I have not seen the boat, going by photos and 'take it with a grain of salt' conversations with the broker. I figured I would fly in a day early to look the boat over myself, and cancel the surveyor if I didn't like what I saw.

The Surveyor came via recommendation of another board member (different board) who recently used him for a similar boat, and said he was pleased with his thoroughness, and the overall outcome. I'm open to other recommendations on surveyors, I haven't scheduled anything yet, but was fairly impressed with the 14 point list and the thermal imaging stuff he does, anyone else?

The Boat started out life on a fresh water lake in Oklahoma, and came to Florida 3.5 years ago, where it has resided on a lift. Corrosion issues concern me, but the photos don't look too bad, and I am relying on the surveyor to bare this out. Current owner is supposedly a retired (80 yrs old) attorney that no longer uses it, but spared no expense maintaining (Broker talking here)....
 
I also wonder about the claim of doing 350 surveys per year. I also question whether all of the items that are claimed to be included are able to be done thoroughly in a day or less, and too much reliance on gadgets to do the work. Just my feelings, being a surveyor.
Brian
 
Scott, It sounds like a very comprehensive inspection! 350 boats a year? I think not! Not unless there are four surveyors working for this company. Keep us posted. Thanks! Al
 
Kinda curious why you decided on this boat sight unseen, and all the way down in FL. Aren't there plenty of these type available in the Mid-Atlantic? Are you keeping it for use in FL? If so, have you investigated insurance cost? If not, have you factored in transportation cost?
The whole situation, end-to-end, makes me very uncomfortable. Detect a faint smell of BS emanating from the surveyor and the (surprise!) broker. Another guy to try as a surveyor is Adrian Volney, who I was going to use if we bought a boat down there (bought in MD instead).

Give yourself a lot of time the day before to thoroughly check this out.

George
 
Still leary about the 350 surveys a year. Al should know........He does them all the time and if HE's questioning it....then you just KNOW there's something up with that.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tanqueray

Still leary about the 350 surveys a year. Al should know........He does them all the time and if HE's questioning it....then you just KNOW there's something up with that.

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I am not taking any surveys right now.. so I will make this comment... 350 surveys.. get someone else NOW.. As Al will tell you.. 4-5 hours on the boat.. 2-4 hours to write the survey.. Thats a full day, to do a good survey. There are only 365 days per year.. 2nd.. Florida has more surveyors that any other state. The busiest person I know only does 3 per week average.. thats only 156.. as for someones comment that he may have 4 surveyors working for him. The original post said "he"... I would dump this guy immediately.. you already can't trust him if he is lying about the numbers.. The second reason is .. if he actually does 350, his surveys have to be crap.. Where is the boat I will be glad to help you find someone.. Since you mentioned thermal.. if this guy is south of Tampa.. definitely find another one. .. you can email me direct if you want..
fred at yachtsurv.com

Above all do not be in a rush to buy the boat..
 
quote:
Originally posted by caltexfla

Kinda curious why you decided on this boat sight unseen, and all the way down in FL. Aren't there plenty of these type available in the Mid-Atlantic? Are you keeping it for use in FL? If so, have you investigated insurance cost? If not, have you factored in transportation cost?
The whole situation, end-to-end, makes me very uncomfortable. Detect a faint smell of BS emanating from the surveyor and the (surprise!) broker. Another guy to try as a surveyor is Adrian Volney, who I was going to use if we bought a boat down there (bought in MD instead).

Give yourself a lot of time the day before to thoroughly check this out.

George

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Hey George,

Combination of configuration, engine/drive package and price. Even with shipping it is priced substantially better than most boats in my area, or short travel distance, and I haven't found a huge number of these for sale in the area to choose from. Many have Bravo 2 drives, and I want dual prop drives, etc., etc.

Hopefully it is not a too good to be true, if it is I loose my plane fare, and I will call of the surveyor, or if the surveyor finds something major, then I loose his fee as well.

quote:
I am not taking any surveys right now.. so I will make this comment... 350 surveys.. get someone else NOW.. As Al will tell you.. 4-5 hours on the boat.. 2-4 hours to write the survey.. Thats a full day, to do a good survey. There are only 365 days per year.. 2nd.. Florida has more surveyors that any other state. The busiest person I know only does 3 per week average.. thats only 156.. as for someones comment that he may have 4 surveyors working for him. The original post said "he"... I would dump this guy immediately.. you already can't trust him if he is lying about the numbers.. The second reason is .. if he actually does 350, his surveys have to be crap.. Where is the boat I will be glad to help you find someone.. Since you mentioned thermal.. if this guy is south of Tampa.. definitely find another one. .. you can email me direct if you want..
fred at yachtsurv.com

Above all do not be in a rush to buy the boat..

Click to expand...


Fred,

Thanks for the insight, you have MAIL!
 
Another thought seeing as how this boat is in Florida.
Supposedly the current owner just doesn't use it anymore......
There is also the very distinct possibility that this is a reconditioned boat from the result of a major storm. I know there are still ALOT of boats in Florida from the storms last year that were pretty badly damaged still laying around and some still being worked on and being resold. I think that given the surveyors claims and what have you that this boat requires some VERY close scrutiny.
Any chance you could post the pics the Broker sent you?
 
Do yourself A HUGE FAVOR and, before you spend any more money, have the boat previewed by someone you trust, such as a fellow RO here. I've had about seven boats previewed for me in the past two months, and let me tell you the photos you get from the broker as basically useless.

Last two boat previews have returned to me about 200 photographs each, from the base of each stanchion to a detail of each engine mount to a photo of each through-hull and each porthole from outside and inside, to shots of all areas in the bilge, to shots of the mattress with the bed cover lifted, interior of all cabinets, details of any cosmetic damage (hairline cracks, chips etc), detail shots of each section of the windshield, headliner in cabin, etc etc etc.

Look under the Ask the Captain section and if you look through a few pages you'll find several threads that I started asking for a boat to be previewed for me.

If you email me at ernesto.ruiz.garcia (at) gmail.com I can send you a very detailed list that I typed up for the people who volunteered to preview boats for me. I actually have two lists, one is things to look for and note condition and the other one I developed later and used in the last few previews is a list of photographs that I'd like to see.

FYI - I've eliminated MOST of boats I was considering based on these previews but also was able to find about 3 serious contenders. And I didn't have to spend a ton of money travelling all over to find a nice boat.

There's nothing like a boater helping a fellow boater, and everyone who's helped me has given me invaluable info on the boat, EXPONENTIALLY more than if I had been talking to the broker. I've also done a couple of these previews for others and it's actually a ton of fun.

When I finally get my boat here, I plan on sending a nice thank you note and a little detail to the people that helped me, along with a picture of my new boat.
 
What! Ern, aren't you going to invite them for a champagne cruise? For cryin' out load......after all they have done for you. [:-crazy]
 
quote:
Originally posted by Flutterby

What! Ern, aren't you going to invite them for a champagne cruse? For cryin' out load......after all they have done for you. [:-crazy]

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I'll invite them for a champagne [:-drunk] cruise also, but I ain't paying for airfare. [:-dopey]
 
That is reasonable, but I was thinking you would be going to the boat's location prior to having it shipped. So you did everything w/o ever actually going to the boat at all? Wow, what cajones you have. [^][^][^]
 
I looked at the boat today. It was not a "super clean" boat, but not a junker either. Depending on the area of the country, pretty good for a Florida boat. I am uploading the photos as I type. Looks like I might be a while I took about 150 pictures.

Ken
 
quote:
Originally posted by Flutterby

That is reasonable, but I was thinking you would be going to the boat's location prior to having it shipped. So you did everything w/o ever actually going to the boat at all? Wow, what cajones you have. [^][^][^]

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With the preview I got on the boat I'm buying, I wouldn't know it any better if I had seen it in person. Shepdog and j-d did an unbelievable job! My plan was to eventually travel to see "the one", but frankly I feel it's just not needed given that the report was soooooo thorough.

Getting surveyed and engines tested on Tuesday.

Anyway, enough for the thread hijack...

Good luck on your boat YAMADOG! Let us know if you go forward with it.
 
quote:
Originally posted by muddkatt

I looked at the boat today. It was not a "super clean" boat, but not a junker either. Depending on the area of the country, pretty good for a Florida boat. I am uploading the photos as I type. Looks like I might be a while I took about 150 pictures.

Ken

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Thanks again Ken. I already contacted the dealer and told him I was going to pass. He of course came back with some less than appropriate responses in my opinion, but that's life. Thanks again for your time photos and insight...

Follow-Up: Well, after reading the comments http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=115048, maybe I overreacted, sure seems like alot of work, and not a terribly clean boat. Maybe my standards are too high for a used boat? Unfortunately I'd have to pay for the repairs, since I don't have the time or expertise that you do Ken with repairs.
 
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