Yacht Crashes, Hit Rocks - Coyote Point

quote:
Originally posted by UpperDecker

Even if the jetty was not marked, they should have been able to pick it up on radar. Radar is a great thing to use in conjunction with the charts. Especially at night. Yet many people for whatever reason do not use it. My guess is that the skipper wasn't either.

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According to the video, the boats owner/Capt said the Jetty was 2' under water, at high tide.

How could it sink on a jetty? The boat was much larger than the jetty, and it wasn't able to support/balance the vessel, from what I could tell from that video...

Where is that jetty on the chart here? The jetty on the video appears much longer than the channel entrance to the marina. What am I missing here?
http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18651.shtml
 
Look on google maps. There is an old jetty at the mouth of the harbor next to the channel. It isn't very well marked on the chart.

But it doesn't look like the jetty on the video either and I can't see anything on goggle maps or the chart that looks anything like it.

In the video the captain said he couldn't give his position, so that tells me he was somewhere else. Otherwise he would have told the Coast Guard he was at the mouth of the harbor.
 
Check out Google Earth -- fly to "coyote point marina". The ruined jetty is clearly visible a few yards north of the entrance channel. It's not that clearly marked, if at all, on Chart 18651. In any event, according to the ABC News video posted above, the captain seems to have thought he was approaching Oyster Point Marina, which is several miles to the north of Coyote Point, and has a very similar -- and similarly marked -- entrance channel, minus, of course, the jetty.
 
quote:
Originally posted by UpperDecker

But it doesn't look like the jetty on the video either and I can't see anything on goggle maps or the chart that looks anything like it.
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I think it does look exactly like the jetty in that video. Did you look at the satelite view?
quote:
The ruined jetty is clearly visible a few yards north of the entrance channel.
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Don't you mean it is located "South" of the marina channel entrance, and not North?

High tide was at around 03:30 I think, so at 11PM on the 15th, the water hieght shouldn't have been that much?

December 2008 12
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PST
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# High Low High Low
1 Mon 0251 4.5 0659 3.5 1243 5.5 1946 -0.3
2 Tue 0332 4.5 0752 3.5 1327 5.2 2028 -0.1
3 Wed 0412 4.6 0856 3.4 1418 4.9 2112 0.2
4 Thu 0449 4.8 1009 3.2 1518 4.5 2158 0.6
5 Fri 0525 5.0 1119 2.7 1631 4.1 2246 1.0
6 Sat 0600 5.3 1220 2.0 1755 3.9 2336 1.4
7 Sun 0635 5.6 1313 1.2 1923 3.9
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Low High Low High
8 Mon 0027 1.8 0712 6.0 1401 0.4 2043 4.0
9 Tue 0119 2.2 0751 6.4 1448 -0.4 2151 4.3
10 Wed 0211 2.6 0833 6.7 1535 -1.1 2251 4.6
11 Thu 0302 2.8 0918 7.0 1622 -1.6 2344 4.8
12 Fri 0354 2.9 1006 7.2 1709 -1.9
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# High Low High Low
13 Sat 0035 4.9 0447 3.0 1056 7.2 1758 -1.9
14 Sun 0124 5.0 0542 3.0 1148 7.0 1847 -1.7
15 Mon 0213 5.1 0642 2.9 1242 6.6 1937 -1.3
16 Tue 0301 5.2 0748 2.8 1340 6.0 2027 -0.7
 
You're right, MM, I did mean south of the marked channel, sorry. And also, I looked at Chart 18651 again, and the jetty is indeed there, marked "Bkw". I must say that I feel much more comfortable making these mistakes in my computer corner at home, than in the middle of the night on a boat full of party goers...
 
you gotta be kidding! how can anyone end up hitting that jetty! the channel to the marina is well marked, and the water before the jetty is much more shallow than in the channel or in the approach to the channel. Either the guy fell asleep at the wheel or he was drunk...
 
I'm sure the skipper celebrated at the birthday dinner too. He may not have been drunk, but had enough to impair his abilities and still think he was ok. This is going to be a very expensive for him!
 
I suspect the captain was not under the influence as I would expect that is the first thing the Coast Guard would check once the passengers were safe. I certainly hope not at least especially given the number of passengers on board. In any event, I don't know why anyone would navigate that part of the Bay by sight at night and not be using charts. A very expensive lapse in judgement but at least the damage was limited to the boat. I can't believe it took them that long to determine the location of the vessel.

Kris
 
I live in San Mateo. I have entered Coyote Point by sail, power & Kayak, day & night for about 30 years. There is one deep channel and it is charted & marked. The captain of this boat must have been in very shallow water and kicking mud for a for severl miles. The channel markers show up much better on radar at night, because you can not trust your depth perception at during night hours with all the city lights in the back ground. Most captains, skippers or pilots when disorientated will always blame the navigation equipment. Remember the Cosco Bushan. I also remember the JAL jet in the bay, and still have pics of it.
 
quote:
Originally posted by sixnt

I must say that I feel much more comfortable making these mistakes in my computer corner at home, than in the middle of the night on a boat full of party goers...

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Amen to that!

The more I read/learn about this, I find it so hard to understand how he could crash...

The CG did initially state alcohol was not involved. Being intoxicated, I can understand that, LOL..
 
quote:
Originally posted by UpperDecker

What were they doing driving around at 4:00AM?

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I understand it occured at 10-11 PM, took that long for the rescue due to shallow water...
 
quote:
Originally posted by Martinez_Mitch

quote:
Originally posted by sixnt

I must say that I feel much more comfortable making these mistakes in my computer corner at home, than in the middle of the night on a boat full of party goers...

Click to expand...

Amen to that!

The more I read/learn about this, I find it so hard to understand how he could crash...

The CG did initially state alcohol was not involved. Being intoxicated, I can understand that, LOL..

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I have a pretty good idea why. He is an older, experienced captain who became complacent in his job and didn't feel that he needed the navigational tools at his disposal.

In my days in the Navy I was a patrol officer and our unit trained reservists on River Patrol Boats at Mare island. We trained in the Napa and Montezuma Slough areas. A few of the reservists that were boat captains and patrol officers were crusty old salts and didn't embrace new ideas or tactics very well. Especially if it was a much younger guy training them.

Their knowledge was fine in the confines of the sloughs, but when it came to transiting open water such as San Pablo Bay or Suisun Bay very few knew where they really were and groundings were quite common.

This wasn't an issue with these boats as they had jet drives and operated in areas that were predominantly mud. If they got stuck, another boat would simply pull them off or at worst, wait for high tide to float off.

I tried my best to teach people how to use the charts, the nav aids, and radar together. For a few of them, the light bulb went off in their heads. But for many, it didn't sink in.

This lack of knowledge finally came to a head when on an exercise in San Pablo Bay. The boat group was returning to Mare Island late at night. Weather was clear with average sea state. Both the patrol officer and boat captain were experienced. Yet somehow they managed to smash into the large jetty that juts out of Mare Island into San Pablo Bay.

When you see this jetty you would think it impossible to hit. But at night, the bay is a whole different story. The lights are deceiving and it is very hard to see obstructions because of the shadows from land or because it is just very dark in places. You really need your wits about you and need to know where you are at all times.

I don't think this captain had any alcohol. I just think he relied on his experience more than he should have and didn't use the tools at his disposal to assist him. The fact that he didn't have a clue as to where he was speaks volumes.
 
If he was not legally BUI, it would not be mentioned by CG. He may have tested 0.07 BA which would mean he is "legally" sober, but 0.07 can impair your judgment or slow down your reaction time.

Or it may be UpperDecker says.
 
looking at the chart, it's not much different from biscayne bay. center of the bay is 9 to 12' deep and shallows up to 3' or less as you get close, with deeper channels coming in to the marinas.

I've never ever come close to miss one of the channels across the shallow areas to the marinas and really cant' see how anyone would.
 
A good example of an open place that is easy to run aground is Angle Island. Going south from the Richmond-San Rafale Bridge the South Bay, the main deep water channel comes with in a stones throw of Angle Island. The Becon Light from Angle Island blends into San Francisco city lights very well. May be the visibilty from a motor yacht is better then an express cruise (express cruiser are low profile). At first I did not understand my radar, I used my 10x50 binoc and saw the rock of Angle Island at the 1:00 o'clock position I think 50 yds of my straboard bow (WOW-scare me). This happened a little after midnight, we had departed Stockton area earlier that afternoon. I have to admit, the lights of San Francisco are beauitful and I must have been distracted & relaxed from my naviation duties.
Almost every fall/early winter I/we take the cruise from the Delta to the South Bay (Jack London Square, Coyote Point & San Lenadro Marine), San Leandro Marina usually the the lowest fuel price, for my return.

P.S. When navigating San Francisco Bay, you just can not miss the San Francisco Airport Lights, San Mateo Bridge & all the jet aircraft traffic over head...!

"Another Toy"
express cruiser
 
This is just another thing that happens, when you don't watch to store. Go with GPS, autopilot, don't check the chart. I have given up trying to tell you guys if you don't check you course with the chart, this is the kind of think that happens.
 
Yes Jim, I see your point. At that time I had a Loran C system (no e-chart) with seperate radar system in my boat. Last Spring I installed a Raymarine E-80 system,radar and 3-D chart. This spring I will be installing hydraulic steering and auto pilot system. This should free me from just driving to stay on course and allow me to provide better watch and safer navigation.

"Another Toy"
express cruiser
 
quote:
Originally posted by Flutterby

If he was not legally BUI, it would not be mentioned by CG. He may have tested 0.07 BA which would mean he is "legally" sober, but 0.07 can impair your judgment or slow down your reaction time.
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Not quite - you can certainly be convicted of a DUI if you're below 0.08 BAC. Such as if you fail the sobriety tests...that's all it takes.

The CG said alcohol was NOT a factor - so I don't think he was even drinking?
 
UpperDecker, I think you're right. He didn't know where he was, as a matter of fact he thought he was somewhere else. He was not using his GPS or Loran, relying instead on his experience and his eyes (at night.) He may have used his chart, but if he thought he was off Oyster Point instead of off Coyote Point that would not have helped him a lot.

As a matter of fact, as one approaches Oyster Point Marina (take another look at Chart 18651) down the marked entrance channel, one has pass the end of a breakwater to starboard before making a sharp 90 degree turn to starboard into the marina itself. With only marker lights, shore lights and shadows to go by, maybe that's what he tried to do at Coyote Point, only instead of rounding the breakwater in front of him, he just climbed up on the submerged or semisubmerged part.

Just a thought...
 
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