Boat explosion in Connelley

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mannmade

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Dan, just caught the end of a news brief saying there was a boat explosion in your territory. What do you know about this?
 
Geo

All we know is what you folks know. Here we are down in MD. and the phone calls tell us that a boat blew up and that there are critical injuries.
People called to let us know we were ok otherwise we would have been on the way home early.

We did not have a chance to meet these folks since they are not at the marina often. I sincerely hope they all fully recover. Pojonews has a pic of the boat and it's junk now. Prior to this I was impressed with how well it showed. Perhaps old fuel lines and or other issues contributed to this tragedy.

We don't regret buying a diesel boat for a second. It seems like every now and then we get a strong smell of gas on the dock and wonder who's boat it's coming from. The next day it's gone. If I went to the office every time I smelled gas, they'd throw us out of the marina. When we had a house boat tied up by the fuel dock, the man had extinguishers all over the place.

Hot humid days with no wind probably let all these vapors accumulate in one spot enough to let these ugly things happen.
 
Google " Kingston Newspaper" for some more info.
Ron
 
LUV that name. "Victoria"s Secret"

But have you thought that based on what they sell that Victoria really doesn"t have too many Secrets anymore?
 
You know, its interesting how when all my friends heard about an old boat blowing up in the Rondout they all called to see if I was okay. Geez, I don't own the only old boat in that creek, you know!!!

Anyhow, we arrived by car in Port Ewen just as the Westchester Medical Center Medevac 'copters were touching down over by the Frozen Rainbow ice cream parlor and the Pentecostal church parking lot. Apparently its an excellent spot because they can land two helicopters there simultaneously. We saw a whole bunch of emergency vehicles there, and from the way they all seemed to be aimlessly milling about, thought it was a drill or a show or something. We didn't realize an accident had happened nearby until our phone started ringing off the hook with calls from frantic friends...

I've spoken with some EMT and other officials, and also made some personal observations from seeing the boat in the slings at Certified Marine and also from an interesting picture that was on the front page of Sunday's Daily Freeman but didn't end up on the 'Net. It was apparently taken just after the boat exploded and while the jetskis and another Chris Craft were rescuing the people from in the water. In that picture, taken on the starboard beam, the stricken boat looks horribly damaged from the base of the helm windshield forward, but at first glance it looks intact from the gunwales down, it didn't even look like it was going to sink at that point, and THERE IS NO FIRE. I thought that seemed awfully interesting, since if the gas tanks exploded you'd think there'd be a helluva blaze like you see in the Boat/US stories, and also because the gas tanks on old express cruisers like that were located under the cockpit (about 1/3 of the way forward from the stern) you'd expect more damage back there. But there wasn't very much...

This led me to consider two possibilities: (1) a propane gas explosion in the galley, which would account for the massive damage to the trunk cabin area, or (2) since the Freeman said the captain was trying to restart a stalled engine at the time, perhaps leaking fuel or vapors was puddling somewhere forward of the motors due to some design peculiarity of the boat whereby the bilge under tha cabin was downhill from the engine compartment, which again was about 1/3 of the way forward from the stern..

In speaking to people around the Rondout this weekend, I've heard support but also counterevidence for/against both theories. For one thing, I noticed on a drive by today that there was no propane tank located on the transom or swim platform of the boat, which is the usual location for such tanks. Someone else mentioned that very old boats like that used alcohol fuel more often than not, which would have caused a fire but no explosion if it ignited. Finally, a discussion with an Emergency Services fellow who was present on Saturday revealed that in his estimation the gas tanks remained intact but at the same time he felt that the engine problem just prior to the explosion pointed to an accumulation of gas vapors in the bilge under the cabin and thus the detonation of those vapors did all the damage but spent its force and thus did not lead to an ensuing fire. he reminded me just how volatile fuel vapors can be...

He thought that the cockpit sole collapsed or was extremely compromised by the explosion, and also that the seams in the hull were blown apart by its force, which accounted for the boat's sinking. It was a concern when the boat was hauled at Certified that it might split in two, so badly weakened was the hull...

Apparently the Mrs. was the most badly burned, and the rest of the family a bit less so but serious enough that they all ended up Medevaced to Westchester Medical Center. This provided a bit of a lesson for my son when we reminded him that he, too, rode in that same helicopter a few years ago. Thank God he made it through his ordeal as an infant, and we pray that the Dodge family will live through their current trial now. What a terrible shame...

A few weeks ago we were at Rondout Yacht Basin and stopped to admire a beautiful 36' Chris Craft named Mea Lare. Its brightwork shone in the sun, and it was so beautifully restored and was quite a looker. Others we have talked to noticed that boat too - it was that conspicuous by its beauty. Sadly that boat is the one which met its grim fate in the Rondout Creek at 2:15PM yesterday - a sad end to a beautiful classic. Godspeed to its crew for a speedy recovery...

PS - in other news, some idiot drove his truck into the River at Ryder Park this afternoon, so the channel was closed or at least restricted for some time. This wasn't the best weekend for boating in the Kingston area, apparently...
 
The Freeman has more information today.
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/site/news.asp?brd=1769
The newspaper confirmed he was attempting to start an engine when it exploded but they don't say if it was a single or multi engine boat. Based on the article many folks have assumed the obvious cause of gasoline vapors being the source. Perhaps a line ruptured and spilled gas all over the bilge. A gas line snapped on an old at the time car I had and it only took a block after starting the engine for it to go up in fire. But I was lucky since cars allow the vapors to escape.
It seems it was an inboard so perhaps that explains why the explosion lifted so much of the enclosure.
The boat used to be docked stern to our dock not far from us, just a few fingers away. I guess we're all lucky it didn't blow up the first time the key was turned that day. We were luckier still that we were not there in that event but we would have done what we could to aid them without getting in the way of the trained people.
Hopefully their injuries and burns are not as bad as they sound. We've heard they did not look so bad at the fuel dock where they landed.
 
I have to wonder when the last time this vessel was surveyed. Fuel system issues seem to always be present on these old wooden boats. I wish the family well and hope for there full recovery.
 
Al, you make a good point about a survey, and I might add maintenance. Certainly older boats bring more issues. It's too bad to hear the diesel comments, as usual, every time such an old boat goes up. Since the vast majority of boats are gas-powered, you would think that fear would wane. Maybe it's just that gas boats have a tendency to ignite right at the dock, whereas diesel fires usually ignite further out to sea because the engine and exhaust have to get good and hot, which is the primary cause of ignition for leaking diesels.

Boatbum, thanks for today's link. They certainly got a lot of people to give opinions. Can anyone here agree with the captain of the Fire Boat that low fuel and fumes in the gas tank are a primary cause of boat explosions? I can't say I ever heard that.
 
I was sort of suprised to hear that also. Perhaps the low fuel in the tanks causes the vapors to be expelled when the tank is full thus setting the stage. In this case, I suspect there was a leak that led to the vapor.
 
Low fuel leads to a much more volatile situation than does a full tank. Technically speaking (don't try this at home, though!) you can throw a match into a full tank of gas and slam the lid shut and it won't explode. I imagine it will burn like Hell, though...

An empty tank, with its expanding vapors, is much, much more volatile. Think of it this way - an engine, which basically is a controlled series of explosions, runs on only a tiny amount of fuel atomized with a large amount of air. Run it too "rich" on fuel and what happens? It stalls out...

"they don't say if it was a single or multi engine boat"

It was a twin screw...

"Hopefully their injuries and burns are not as bad as they sound. We've heard they did not look so bad at the fuel dock where they landed."

Hmmm. If their injuries were bad enough for them to be medevaced to Westchester at $10,000 a pop, they were probably pretty bad. I'm told the Mom was the worst off. The damn cabin literally blew up in her face as she sat in the companion seat. Also the cockpit floor seems to have collapsed during the blast...

"I have to wonder when the last time this vessel was surveyed."

Along a similar vein, we were wondering if the captain had neglected to give the powerplant the same meticulous detail he had done with the exterior styling of the boat. The thing was immaculate to look at. But if he neglected to do much with the engines, well, that was a recipe for disaster...

And it happens very often - it costs a lot of money to properly maintain an engine room. My own old scow is laid up at the moment because during some routine maintenance I found a whole bunch of things wrong in the engine room from hoses to belts to electrical which would be unsafe to operate unless corrected. Well let me tell you I'm really happy I work at a marina and get all the stuff for cost and barter, because I'm running up a pretty good tab assembling everything I need to get the boat straightened out...

I knew this was coming, BTW. The engine room was the weakest link on this boat when I bought it and one of the reasons I got it cheaply. I patched things for awhile, but decided it was not prudent to ignore the situation any further. What scares me is the possibility that had he lived the prior owner would have still been cruising around in this thing while still neglecting the necessary maintenance, or worse, his wife and kids, who still tried to use the boat a few times after he died, might have unknowingly run around in this boat and put themselves in a bad situation. They were smart to sell it to me when they did. In my case, at least I have no excuses - I know what's wrong and what it takes to fix it, and in a week or so it will be done...

One other thought comes to mind - how many people buy old boats to fulfill their dream of boat ownership without realizing just how expensive it is to maintain them. The story of the family who took the old wooden cruiser out in the Atlantic off Florida back in the '70s comes to mind here - the boat sank and some of them were either eaten by sharks or died of exposure. All because the boat wasn't properly checked for rotted fasteners and a plank let loose...
 
FYI

It looks as though this boat broke a number of rules. Poor maintenance, incorrect parts, and a lack of blower usage. Granted, the ignition protected alternators were probably not required when the boat ws built.

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18670501&BRD=1769&PAG=461&dept_id=74969&rfi=6

I know we should feel sorry for the family, but he could have killed me and others on the dock if the boat blew up when he started it.

I'd say boat inspections should be required.
 
The investigation of the vessel also revealed a loose coil wire on one of the boat's engines and that the alternators on both engines were not sealed.

We'll have to save this one for the periodic "automotive parts in boat" discussion and to reinforce the usage of blowers.

I hope the family heals quickly.
 
I'm with you Dan on requiring boat inspections. I bought our first boat last year and was really surprised by the condition of some engine compartments. I found exposed wires -- no insulation -- on a mid 80's boat and mentioned that to the owner who simply shrugged his shoulders. That's when I decided it was time to hire a surveyor. I hope whoever bought that boat took it too a competent mechanic. An inspection for boats would require much of the basics a car is checked for (what's the most important part on a car? see below). Fuel delivery would have to be on the top of the list.

Sounds to me this guy flooded his engines when trying to restart from a stall and admitted to not venting the fumes. When you're in a hurry, you can forget the basics. But also wondering, aren't you supposed to have your blowers running at low speeds and at idle? He had plenty of time to engage the blowers if coming from Certified or from the river.

Our prayers to all involved.

Answer: the brakes.
 
I have to disagree on the fumes and fuel level business. These explosions don't start inside the fuel tank - and the boat doesn't become more dangerous as fuel gets low. It looks like the fuel tanks didn't even open and burn in this incident! They appear to be still intact.

If trying to start the engine created fumes, remember he also had a running engine in that compartment. That can ignite the fumes as they are sucked into the carburator. The flame arrestor won't stop the ignition if there is a solid stream of fumes on both sides of the flame arrestor.

But, let's not pick on the poor guy. Any carburated engine that won't start will give off some fumes.

I restored my 1980 boat - although the engine was newer. Still they had reinstalled the old 1985 alternator on the 1995 engine. That got replaced. I checked everything carefully, replaced the fuel pump, spark wires etc. Installed 2 new blowers and added a fume detector. Oh yeah, and the fuel tank and all fuel hoses, (including the gas fill hose), plus a fuel shut-off it never had. Couldn't think of anthing else to do. Some things you take seriously.
 
Capt10pat I'm not sure I can agree with your assertion that fuel tanks don't become more dangerous as level gets low for reasons stated above. However you correctly point out that its a moot point in this particular case because the fuel tanks did not explode...

But lets address some of the points in the article:

"According to people familiar with gasoline-powered boats, explosions such as the one that sunk the Dodge vessel are not uncommon because of the potential for fumes to collect below the deck.

Larry Bigando, a volunteer firefighter and captain of the Marine Fire Rescue Unit of the Kingston Fire Department said Sunday that gasoline-powered boats are most dangerous when their fuel levels are low.

Bigando said boats come equipped with blowers that must be turned on prior to engine start-up to exhaust the fumes that build up in the boat's compartment.

In an inspection of the craft, authorities found that the vessel's blower motor appeared to have not been used and the power switch was found in the "off" position, according to the Sheriff's Office.

Authorities said Dodge confirmed in an interview with sheriff's investigators that he did not use the blower motor before attempting to restart the craft.

The investigation of the vessel also revealed a loose coil wire on one of the boat's engines and that the alternators on both engines were not sealed."

Regarding blower usage, please consider the fact that running the bilge blower for 4 minutes is only required prior to starting the boat, all boats are designed with non-mechanical flow through ventilation, and prior to 1980 there was NO REQUIREMENT for a mechanical ventilation system.

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/equ_vent.htm

Now granted this was a gray area because the boat had been running and then conked out, but the owner was not doing anything wrong presuming he had shut the bilge blower off after starting his vessel and pulling clear of the dock. In fact, the vacuum created by the other operating engine would have acted to draw outside air into the bilge and help ventilate the vessel as well...

The fact that so much gasoline vapor was present in the bilge even after the engines were started and the boat had left the dock leads me to believe that there was another problem somewhere. Someone above suggested the engine flooded in trying to restart - that is a distinct possibility...

Of additional concern are the non-ignition-protected alternators (did he buy a car alternator? a BIG no-no) and to a lesser extent the loose coil wire, because the coil is up high and the gas fumes collect down low...

As capt10pat says above - some things you take seriously. It would be a shame, as I suggested yesterday, if this guy had put all that blood sweat and tears into making the outside of the boat spotless and then neglected the engine compartment. He'd have been better off with a ratty-looking boat that was in perfect shape mechanically. I don't know if he did this, but never EVER skimp out and put automotive electrical components into a boat. Period...

Also, if that engine was flooded it means he tried to restart it for awhile. He should have opened the hatch and took a look in there. Never keep trying to start a downed engine without taking a look to see what the Hell is going on in there. If for no other reason then opening the hatch will help ventilate the bilge compartment...

Finally, as I mentioned yesterday I'm in the middle of all kinds of mechanical work on my own boat, that started when I found some electrical system problems and ill-fitting ignition wires. Now you've all got me thinking about those alternators - I just got the boat last year so have no idea when they were last worked on or whatever. How do you tell from looking at them if they're marine or not???
 
Of course he could have just bought it this way. And as stated earlier, ignition protected alternators were probably not required when the boat was built.
 
Pete I agree with most of what you say - although my quick one reading of part of an article left me with the impression he was waiting to get at the gas dock - not leaving it. In those crowded waters, everyone would retry starting rather than opening a hatch. Maybe that engine was even out of gas! As I said above, let's cut the guy some slack, we don't know what happened.

But for the fuel tank thing - I don't care if some fireman made that statement, or some report scrambled it - it's wrong. I agree that vapors are more dangerous than liquid fuel. But the vapors, no matter how many are in the tank, are not supposed to escape to the bilge. And vapors in the tank are not going to cause an explosion - except perhaps in an already fully burning boat that eventually opens the tank.

Ignition protected alternators have been standard for at least 30 years. I doubt he is still running those 1960 (or whatever) alternators. So, probably another wild goose chase.
 
Pat, I'm sorry I was unclear. When I said "pulling clear of the dock" I meant his home dock. He drove the boat around the outside of the marina and was waiting in line off the fuel dock when his engine conked out...

Yes, you are absolutely correct that an empty fuel tank's vapors are not supposed to get into the bilge, and again I'm sorry if I misunderstood your comments. What I was referring to was the equivalent power of igniting a FULL gas tank versus a NEARLY EMPTY one, and the nearly empty one will ignite with much more violence, believe it or not. But you're right - NEITHER of them should be in any danger of igniting on their own regardless of how the boat is ventilated because those vapors should not leak into the bilge unless there is a leak in the tank. And IMHO the tanks were not compromised in any way onboard this vessel or there would have been a spectacular fire, unless the damn thing was completely empty...

"Ignition protected alternators have been standard for at least 30 years. I doubt he is still running those 1960 (or whatever) alternators. So, probably another wild goose chase."

I'm not sure I follow you here - the authorities have determined that the alternators in use on the vessel were not ignition protected. Which would be the case if Mr. Dodge or the previous owner used automotive alternators in his vessel, which is a tremendous no-no. IMHO if this is true this is the MOST LIKELY cause of the spark that caused the explosion - on that boat the alternators were located near the bottom of the engines pretty much under the captain's feet, near the junction of the cockpit and engine compartment, and on those old boats there was no requirement that the cabin be sealed off from the cockpit, so fumes were free to run downhill and collect someplace - perhaps right under that cabin door area...

Here's something worth noting - having owned two nearly identical boats, one a '75 and one an '80 its interesting to note the significant differences in this regard. On my '75 you could pull out a drawer and look underneath the cabin sole and right into the engine compartment. Or you could pull the stairs out and reach right into the engine room as well (that was actually a handy feature, IMHO). On my newer boat there is complete isolation between the cabin and the engine room. There is a bulkhead sealing off the two spaces. I found this interesting when I saw the boat for the first time, and now I have a greater appreciation for why they probably redesigned it that way...
 
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