Carver 3607 A/C Smells TERRIBLE

RJC
Things can get pretty "nasty" in that bilge only after a couple of weeks with high outside temps. I have mixed Oxyclean powder in a 5 gallon Homer bucket and dumped it into that fwd bilge with good success. It neutralizes the odor in short order, and leaves the bilge "shiny clean" upon exiting naturally via the next bilge pump cycle. They advertise you can "drink" Oxyclean without ramification, so my gut feeling is it is environmentally safe.
Don
 
RJCRESS: Be prepared when you wet-vac the bilge --- nothing personal, but if you're like me you'll want to puke. I NEVER had ANY visual clue from looking into the bilges to what & how much "stuff" came out of there....and I watch those kinds of things pretty closely. I watch them very close now. This is all nothing but Live And Learn.

DON: Love the Ocyclean idea!!! (this is not an ill-timed joke, but didn't Billy Mays hawk that on TV at one point?) It works wonders on tile grout, so I'm going to add that to the mix this weekend!

THANKS FRIENDS!!
Stirling
 
Well, I shop-vac'd about 12 gallons of water from the forward bilge last weekend and it cured the salon stench problem.
Imagine my surprise when I arrived at the boat this weekend to find the bilge at it's pre-shop-vac level... and the AC stench was back also.
I'm a bit baffled. I've read where others found the source of the water, and none really look that realistic to me... but I guess if i don't find something else, then it MUST be something like water draining from the hawes pipe (isn't that what the hole in the deck that the anchor rope is accessed through is called?).
Back the the drawing board.

-Jeff
 
If the water is coming thru your hawse pipe it will be very difficult to eliminate the standing water in the forward bilge......so you might want to try placing a chlorine puck (used in toilets) in the bilge. That should help cut down on how smelly that water will become.....just a suggestion.
 
......one more thing about using the chlorine puck; if you do try it, do not then add any bilge cleaner to the water as some cleaners when mixxed with chlorine can produce a harmful gas......just use one or the other.
 
i doubt water is coming from the hawse pipe, that would end up in the anchor locker and drain overboard, not in the bilge.

12 gallons is a lot of water though, you have to wonder why a compartment that could hold that much water doesnt' have a limber hole to drain out into the bilge.

make sure you AC condensate drains into a sump and not into the bilge.
 
First: I agree - 12 gallons is A LOT of water... Seems like your bilge pump should always keep you lower than that. I usually only get less than 1/2 of that if I suck that bilge area dry. With the pump at lowest level, it keeps my water level below the access holes into the adjoining compartments too (they may also be filling up b4 your pump engages if you are mounted higher.)

I remounted a pump w/ auto switch in the lowest area of the blige, right to the floor, in the access below the galley stairs. You might want to check the level your pump (and/or switch) is at... that should help you reduce how quickly the smell returns (water won't be able to stagnate for so long given more frequent pumping cycles).

Second:
I believe my anchor rode access hole drains into the rode storage locker on these models. What I don't know is "does that locker have a drain connected to the sump?" I have two 3/4" lines laying in the bilge coming from that direction both tied into the sump. I have an AC unit, and the anchor locker both up front. Unless someone can offer an answer to this, I may need to start digging. (So far the Oxyclean has diminished my motivation to "go there")
 
Potential contributors:
-leak in the shower/sink sump box, or associated tubes, fittings, etc.

-hawes pipe leakage into anchor rope locker, and subsequently into the bilge (I'm fairly certain that the tube exiting the low point of the anchor rope locker runs to the bilge). I'm nearly certain that it didn't rain during the week, although it DID rain quite a bit on Sunday, July 5th... 2 days after the shop vac was used. I wish I would have looked in the bilge before heading home on Sunday.

-A/C condensation. I shop vac'ed the forward bilge on Friday, July 3rd. Guests slept in the forward berth Friday and Saturday nights and ran the A/C all night. We also ran the A/C for probably a cumulative 10 hours during the days... so lets call that 25-30 hours of A/C use since the bilge was vacumed dry. I assume the A/C drains into the bilge (will verify at the next opportunity). How much condensate should be expected over 25-30 hours of A/C use?
If this is it, then I'll see if I can route the condensate drain into the shower box.

-leaking fresh water pipe?

-leaking black water hose? I don't think this is it. The water was a bit stinky, but not nearly what I would call a sewage look or smell.

-water moving forward from engine room? My next task is to tighten my stuffing boxes (hoping I don't have to repack them yet). They drip pretty fast after a ride, but taper off after a few hours to next to nothing. I usually have an inch or so of standing water on either side of the engine room... too low for the pumps to automatically evacuate it, but enough that I wonder if the water is working it's way forward through limber holes. The auto pump doesn't cycle... the dripping always stops right before getting to the level that would cause the pump to come on. I know... I need to deal with this ASAP.

-coming in from the lake through the hull? Not sure how this would be happening, but I didn't want to leave the obvious option off of the list. I think this area of the bilge is too far forward to have an keel under it (not sure though). She was out of the water this time last year and none of the professionals that looked at her found any cracks, punctures, or blisters that needed attention. Any other likely causes of a very slow water penetration through the glass?

What other options am I missing?

Also, I keep all of the tanks pretty empty.
Gas tanks are about half full and declining... trying to burn off the rest of last season's gas. Black water tanks stay nearly empty. Fresh water tanks are never more than 25% full. I wonder if keeping all of the tanks empty is lightening the stern and making the hull sit in the water slightly bow heavy. That might explain why I seem to get more water accumulated in the bilge than I would think could happen, given that the pumps and float switches appear to be mounted about as low and aft as possible. I might try filling the fresh water tank to see if that lowers the stern enough to make a difference. It might also submerge my exhaust so it won't be quite so stinkin' loud. My boat sounds like a BIG Harley.
 
couple of thoughts and comments...

1)- anchor lockers need to drain OUTSIDE the boat... they shouldn't even drain to a shower sump since you often get mud and grass coming in with the anchor, even if you rinse teh rode as it comes up. anchor lockers are always high enough to be able to have a thru hull fitting well above water line, connected to the locker.

2)- AC condensate should never go to teh bilge... something about condensate water being excellent breeding ground for nasty stuff. If Carver tried to save a buck by dumping it in the bilge, bite the bullet and either run a hose to a shower sump if nearby, or if you can't get a straight downhill run because of stringers, add a sump. $100...

3)- engine room bilges should ALWAYS be sealed from the rest of the boat. not just so that oily residue don't travel all over the boat but also so that gas fumes remain isolated from cabin where you have a ton of non ingnition protected items.

these are 3 things to check and remedy asap if they turn out to be the source.

Years ago, on a maxum 37, i noticed my forward bilge pump started cycling on and off and i found water in the bilge (forward of the sealed ER bulkhead. Took me a while to figure it out... turned out to be a missing screw on the transom mounted xducer, allowing water in the laminate. Under pressure, water was able to find voids adn exit 15' forward of the transom. After drying the bilge with rags, I noticed moisture seeping out of the hull. Luckily, it was in a spot that was easy to see, not where the inner hull is behind cabinetry. So water can travel a long way within a laminate...
 
RJ
Points learned in diagnosing leaks (I know this sounds painfully methodical, but in the end it save me frustration and time). Print it off for a checklist..

Step 1) In the Spring when she is bone dry (I blow out my water lines each fall), do not hook up any water or AC for the first couple of weeks. Did this a few years back after sealing everything above and below the water line, cleaning out all the window track drains, and repacking with GFO that winter. She was dry for many weeks. This indicates no External intrusion (windows, through hull joints, hawes drain, etc.) Fix anything you find, dry her up again, revalidate solution works.

Step 2) Turn on the AC and run it a few days. Fix, dry, retest, and move on to next steps.

Step 3) Add water. First through the dock pressurized waterline input only (don't cycle any heads or use any sinks/showers draining to sumps yet). I found multiple plumbing leaks, usually at T-fittings that cracked over time (replaced with PEX). Second, fill your water tanks and look again. I found a small crack in one (easy to fix). Third, fill the sumps and check for leaks. Finally, cycle the heads and check again, particularly around your waste tanks (I found a small leak developing in the mid cabin tank and replaced it).

RJ
I had a "dry boat" for a couple years. I now have water coming from somewhere into that front bilge, and like you am assembling facts to paint the picture for root cause(s).
Fact 1) a fairly significant amount when it does show up. This indicates to me that a leak stream would have to accumulate water from larger surface areas (like running down a rode, down a window thru a track, down the rub rail into an access hole, or down an exterior panel into an open gap on a port window).
Fact 2) I noticed "dirty" sediment in the water(not waste tank type). Like stuff that accumulates in window tracks, port window gaps, on rodes, and behind rub rails.
Fact 3) the leak seems to correlate with rainfalls, but not proven (yet).

My next actions (based on self motivation and the facts):
-Window tracks have not been cleaned for some time. Yours should be like mine and those fwd most tracks are by design nasty at growing "stuff" that plugs drains (I like easiest jobs first)
-Ports are due for a recheck on hardware tightening, and a bead of sealer (1/2 a day job, not too difficult)
-First I'll throw some paper towels into the rode locker and see what happens. If that turns up wet, I will temporarily disconnect my anchor rode when not using to break the potential leak path (repeat towels and see what happens). Finally, investigate where the bottom end drains to (just to be sure)
-I did replace the SS rub rails, requiring some new hole drilling. It is unlikely this amount of water could leak between a screw hole/screw on a vertical face - not a high physical probability. But I did not apply sealer behind the rubber when reattaching it. Will need to probe here if all else fails (This is a job - leaving this for "project season").

Regarding your comments:
-leaking fresh water pipe? You never know when these might show up on older boats like ours. For me, this would mean "clear bilge water" (no sediment unless flowing thru a dirty area). Definitely worth investigating (now for the obvious, or in the spring when dry for the tougher finds)
-leaking black water hose? I don't think this is it either. I find the water gets stinky from sitting in the heat when she's closed up for the week. (and my waste tanks are still empty)
-water moving forward from engine room? Doubtful, even though repacking should be on your winter list (ZERO packing leaks for me now after GFO). I don't know of any limber holes connecting front to mid bilge areas so I doubt that's your front bilge issue. (Mid to rear bilges do connect via limber holes on mine - temporarily throw in some plugs to isolate them until you know what's going on)
-coming in from the lake through the hull? Not likely unless a through hull below your water line is leaking. I do have a fitting on the Port side where the old waste discharge hole was. You could check that one out if you have it too. Make sure there are no others (you have a different model and year).

1 HEADS UP...
If you have those factory flat flush chrome air vents on the side of your Carver (just below the rub rail) they leak. Rain water flows over the rub rails, and down the side, into these flat vents. I had to replace both head fans because they filled with water over time and drowned. Particularly the one directly beneath your boarding access point where the deck water runs off (big leak intrusion point). Replace those flat syle with a Louvered vent style to resolve this leak path.

Best of Luck RJ! Let us know what you find. (I will too)
Don
 
If I failed to mention it before, I did have a wire get stuck in the bilge switch hinge --- keeping it in the "down" (as in WON'T PUMP) mode. AHHHH --- the little things. Once I got the bilges nice & dry, made sure the black water tanks had been properly flushed & just put a little Oxy-Clean in the holds -- no more problem.

Regarding the anchor locker drain, I've had NO moisture from that source.

Regarding the forward "Shower/Sink/Sump-Box", I'd like to meet the guy at Carver who signed-off on that design -- that is THE WORST DESIGN FLAW I THINK I'VE EVER SEEN!!! I'm almost to the point that I can't use it.....
 
Confirmed over the past weekend that the anchor rope locker drains through a vent hole in the leading edge of the bow, not into bilge.
Didn't have time for any other troubleshooting/research.

stirlingp, glad to hear that your problem is solved. That gives me hope, and Don's list gives me a plan. I just need to make time to work through this.
 
UPDATE: I found it!

I know it has been some time since this thread began but I wanted to share my recent findings to help others remedy the same aggravating source of of water (and resulting smell) in the forward bilge.

2 leak source potentials exist that we're not in the posts above, and they can be interactive....

1). Below the front windshield glass on my 3607 are 2 black plastic covers that clip over an access cavity. Remove both (I was able to slide each in the outboard direction). you will find a cavity behind them that has mounting screws, and a seam on each end. Remove the existing caulk, clean the cavity, allow to dry and apply caulk in both corners and over all screw heads.

2). The channel will now naturally drain to the outboard ends directly over the red and green marker light fixtures. Remove these fixtures and reseal any openings that allow water inside. I also took the time to seal the plastic lenses to their housings to be safe.

While it took me 11 years to find this elusive rat, now I have a bone dry front bilge and no more odor (Oxyclean and Febreeze stock values could plummet).
I hope this helps someone else...
Regards,
Don
 
Great thread.

It might be a couple of years old, but it sure has got me planning where to check this spring.

If it ever arrives.
 
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