Health Care Bill Includes Water Deal!!!!!

Many sides disagree and will never see things the same regardless of the outcome!

The facts are Healthcare is out of control and we all are paying for the uninsured like it or not. I believe this plan shifts the funds already being spent to cover more folks who currently have no insurance which in turn will allow them to become proactive in seeing Dr's and not ending up in the ER which in time will reduce health care costs before they are problems which we now pay for.

Like it or not we ALL are already covering health care costs for the uninsured so why not make some sort of mandatory coverage?

When I was young I had No coverage and when I needed to see a Dr I had to go to the ER and Medi-Cal kicked in to help pay the bill. If I had Insurance I could have made a regular appointment to see a Dr. and my office visit would have cost much less.

I agree with Waynepj4, the Republicans had many opportunities to address Health Care and many other problems. Allowing the free market to correct and adjust on their own doesn't work. Take Anthem Blue Cross for instance, they are for profit at the insured's expense, do any of us really believe that health care providers are providing Insurance so they feel good?

I believe the bill doesn't go far enough! I won't be happy until I have the same medical coverage Nancy Peolsi has or our elected officials have the same coverage as the people who voted them into office!

How many of you have pre-existing conditions or know someone that has one? Don't you feel a bit better knowing that you or they cannot be denied coverage any longer?

If you believe doing nothing was the right thing to do as the Republicans have done waiting for the free market to adjust and lower health care cost perhaps I can interest you in some beach front property that's a real bargain.
 
Well said, well said
quote:
Originally posted by Gnarley

Many sides disagree and will never see things the same regardless of the outcome!

The facts are Healthcare is out of control and we all are paying for the uninsured like it or not. I believe this plan shifts the funds already being spent to cover more folks who currently have no insurance which in turn will allow them to become proactive in seeing Dr's and not ending up in the ER which in time will reduce health care costs before they are problems which we now pay for.

Like it or not we ALL are already covering health care costs for the uninsured so why not make some sort of mandatory coverage?

When I was young I had No coverage and when I needed to see a Dr I had to go to the ER and Medi-Cal kicked in to help pay the bill. If I had Insurance I could have made a regular appointment to see a Dr. and my office visit would have cost much less.

I agree with Waynepj4, the Republicans had many opportunities to address Health Care and many other problems. Allowing the free market to correct and adjust on their own doesn't work. Take Anthem Blue Cross for instance, they are for profit at the insured's expense, do any of us really believe that health care providers are providing Insurance so they feel good?

I believe the bill doesn't go far enough! I won't be happy until I have the same medical coverage Nancy Peolsi has or our elected officials have the same coverage as the people who voted them into office!

How many of you have pre-existing conditions or know someone that has one? Don't you feel a bit better knowing that you or they cannot be denied coverage any longer?

If you believe doing nothing was the right thing to do as the Republicans have done waiting for the free market to adjust and lower health care cost perhaps I can interest you in some beach front property that's a real bargain.

Click to expand...
 
Gnarley - You can have the same coverage as Nacy Pelosi when you pay for it. Don't get me wrong I can't stand her and if she were to meet her demise tomorrow I think the world would be a better place. But come on. I have dual coverage. One provided by my previous employer and the other provided by my current employer.You are right we are going to pay for this social program "Like it or Not". I am sure the federal government will do a much better job at manageing healthcare than they did at manageing say, the post office, Medicare/Medicaid, Amtrack, Social Security......

I am just pissed that they are now going to charge me an additional excise tax to go to the tanning salon.

While true healthcare reform was needed, this was not it. This was simply a take over of the healthcare system. When the docs are capped and told this is all you get paid (and there already the lowest per hour paid person in the system) how many will stay. Those that were going to retire at 60-65 and are over 55 will likely leave. New docs won't want to go to school for 6-8 (longer for a surgical specialty)years when it will take them 14+ to pay back the tuition. Of the docs left, the really good ones will go to a cash fee system. And the folks that pay cash really don't care what state of the art healthcare is. Hospitals will wind up in the same position. How will that work out for us non paying peeps?... Those general practitioners better ramp up their skill sets because it is about to get very bumpy for them.

You can say "well the government already forces us to get car insurance, wear helmets, wear seatbelts; but they don't force us. We do not have to do the activities requiring them. However, our only option on this plan to avoid paying it is to stop breathing. And that will become expected within a few years. The terminally ill and the elderly will be triaged out of the system though "end of life counseling". You can not expect to add 30mil + to a system that is downsizing without consequence. And who ever said Americans travel abroad for healthcare. We don't. Yet. However, many come to this country to use our private institutions because we do have the BEST healthcare in the world. That will change soon too.

If they would have stuck to true reform instead of taxation without reprsentation, forced corporate purchase and back door dealing to get it passed you would not have as many pissed off folks as you are seeing now. Tort reform would not have cost the taxpayers a dime. Yet malpractice is the le biggest chunk of overhead of most medical facilities and private practitioners for that matter. Placing a cap on retiree and pre-existing illness insurance would not have cost anything either. Lastly, (and this does cost something), allowing a tax dedcution for a percentage paid to health insurance based on your income would have encouraged more folks to purchase it. And for those that do not want to purchase it, a no interest payment plan could have been mandated. These are just some of the things that were suggested and argued in congress and where pushed aside for the bill that was signed. These were things that our senators and congressmen pushed for and it came from we the people. Yet those people were ignored.

Instead, employers will start to cut back more and lay more people off. Mine is and we are healthcare. Smaller businesses will likely close altogether. Some companies will simply pay the fine rather than insure their employees. Families will likely not buy insurance until they need it because the fine is cheaper and the pre-existing clause will keep you from being denied coverage. If only we could get that for our cars. We could get in an accident and then get insurance. I had a friend that for the first 43 years of his life decided he did not need healthcare. He started having gallbladder problems and incestantly complained about the costs and ultimate cost of surgery. He spent nearly $20 on pre/post and surgical care. A good deal if you ask me since the insurance would have been over $200k during those first 20 years or so.

Sorry for the long a** rant but this whole thing smacks of socialism. And as Margaret Thatcher once said: "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money". I am real tired of others telling me what I am going to spend my money on.
 
quote:
Originally posted by jmeirhofer

Gnarley - You can have the same coverage as Nacy Pelosi when you pay for it. Don't get me wrong I can't stand her and if she were to meet her demise tomorrow I think the world would be a better place. But come on. I have dual coverage. One provided by my previous employer and the other provided by my current employer.You are right we are going to pay for this social program "Like it or Not". I am sure the federal government will do a much better job at manageing healthcare than they did at manageing say, the post office, Medicare/Medicaid, Amtrack, Social Security......

I am just pissed that they are now going to charge me an additional excise tax to go to the tanning salon.

While true healthcare reform was needed, this was not it. This was simply a take over of the healthcare system. When the docs are capped and told this is all you get paid (and there already the lowest per hour paid person in the system) how many will stay. Those that were going to retire at 60-65 and are over 55 will likely leave. New docs won't want to go to school for 6-8 (longer for a surgical specialty)years when it will take them 14+ to pay back the tuition. Of the docs left, the really good ones will go to a cash fee system. And the folks that pay cash really don't care what state of the art healthcare is. Hospitals will wind up in the same position. How will that work out for us non paying peeps?... Those general practitioners better ramp up their skill sets because it is about to get very bumpy for them.

You can say "well the government already forces us to get car insurance, wear helmets, wear seatbelts; but they don't force us. We do not have to do the activities requiring them. However, our only option on this plan to avoid paying it is to stop breathing. And that will become expected within a few years. The terminally ill and the elderly will be triaged out of the system though "end of life counseling". You can not expect to add 30mil + to a system that is downsizing without consequence. And who ever said Americans travel abroad for healthcare. We don't. Yet. However, many come to this country to use our private institutions because we do have the BEST healthcare in the world. That will change soon too.

If they would have stuck to true reform instead of taxation without reprsentation, forced corporate purchase and back door dealing to get it passed you would not have as many pissed off folks as you are seeing now. Tort reform would not have cost the taxpayers a dime. Yet malpractice is the le biggest chunk of overhead of most medical facilities and private practitioners for that matter. Placing a cap on retiree and pre-existing illness insurance would not have cost anything either. Lastly, (and this does cost something), allowing a tax dedcution for a percentage paid to health insurance based on your income would have encouraged more folks to purchase it. And for those that do not want to purchase it, a no interest payment plan could have been mandated. These are just some of the things that were suggested and argued in congress and where pushed aside for the bill that was signed. These were things that our senators and congressmen pushed for and it came from we the people. Yet those people were ignored.

Instead, employers will start to cut back more and lay more people off. Mine is and we are healthcare. Smaller businesses will likely close altogether. Some companies will simply pay the fine rather than insure their employees. Families will likely not buy insurance until they need it because the fine is cheaper and the pre-existing clause will keep you from being denied coverage. If only we could get that for our cars. We could get in an accident and then get insurance. I had a friend that for the first 43 years of his life decided he did not need healthcare. He started having gallbladder problems and incestantly complained about the costs and ultimate cost of surgery. He spent nearly $20 on pre/post and surgical care. A good deal if you ask me since the insurance would have been over $200k during those first 20 years or so.

Sorry for the long a** rant but this whole thing smacks of socialism. And as Margaret Thatcher once said: "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money". I am real tired of others telling me what I am going to spend my money on.

Click to expand...
Ding Ding! We have a winner. Thank you for taking the time to say exactly what I was thinking, but really didn't have the time to express.

Just like Arnold using every dirty trick in the book to build his canal, the federal government is bent on giving us the health care system of a third world country along with the fiscal irresponsibility of Greece.

Not only will it be inefficient as is everything the government manages, the quality of health care will suffer as well. Since being a doctor will be a much less attractive career, fewer of our bright minds will become doctors. Instead, they'll become lawyers who will specialize in suing the government for malpractice.

So don't be surprised if your next physician ends up being someone who worked at the DMV and decided to become a doctor. Hope you all enjoy your colonoscopy.
 
The real winner is Obama, the Democratic party and all Americans. The losers are conservatives, Republicans and insurance companies who take money when your health, drop you when you become too costly.

Government isnt the one providing healthcare. It still comes from insurance companies, medicine is still practiced by doctors.

They just added a few rules. Small businesses who lay people off for not being able to afford ever increasing healthcare coverage will now get help and support so they can continue to keep people on payroll.

Look..this is democracy..the GOP did a horrible job so now their numbers in both houses of Congress are few..thats how it works..so now that they cant spend trillions figuring out which country to attack next they have to sit back and watch dems invest domestically.

Both parties spend money. GOP spend money blowing people up..Dems spend money right here within the 50 states.

The fiscally responsible republican is a myth. They never have existed. They never balanced the budget, Republicans never lower the national debt so stop preaching that the GOP is the party of fiscal responsiblity. They cleary are not. The record is clear.
quote:
Originally posted by UpperDecker

quote:
Originally posted by jmeirhofer

Gnarley - You can have the same coverage as Nacy Pelosi when you pay for it. Don't get me wrong I can't stand her and if she were to meet her demise tomorrow I think the world would be a better place. But come on. I have dual coverage. One provided by my previous employer and the other provided by my current employer.You are right we are going to pay for this social program "Like it or Not". I am sure the federal government will do a much better job at manageing healthcare than they did at manageing say, the post office, Medicare/Medicaid, Amtrack, Social Security......

I am just pissed that they are now going to charge me an additional excise tax to go to the tanning salon.

While true healthcare reform was needed, this was not it. This was simply a take over of the healthcare system. When the docs are capped and told this is all you get paid (and there already the lowest per hour paid person in the system) how many will stay. Those that were going to retire at 60-65 and are over 55 will likely leave. New docs won't want to go to school for 6-8 (longer for a surgical specialty)years when it will take them 14+ to pay back the tuition. Of the docs left, the really good ones will go to a cash fee system. And the folks that pay cash really don't care what state of the art healthcare is. Hospitals will wind up in the same position. How will that work out for us non paying peeps?... Those general practitioners better ramp up their skill sets because it is about to get very bumpy for them.

You can say "well the government already forces us to get car insurance, wear helmets, wear seatbelts; but they don't force us. We do not have to do the activities requiring them. However, our only option on this plan to avoid paying it is to stop breathing. And that will become expected within a few years. The terminally ill and the elderly will be triaged out of the system though "end of life counseling". You can not expect to add 30mil + to a system that is downsizing without consequence. And who ever said Americans travel abroad for healthcare. We don't. Yet. However, many come to this country to use our private institutions because we do have the BEST healthcare in the world. That will change soon too.

If they would have stuck to true reform instead of taxation without reprsentation, forced corporate purchase and back door dealing to get it passed you would not have as many pissed off folks as you are seeing now. Tort reform would not have cost the taxpayers a dime. Yet malpractice is the le biggest chunk of overhead of most medical facilities and private practitioners for that matter. Placing a cap on retiree and pre-existing illness insurance would not have cost anything either. Lastly, (and this does cost something), allowing a tax dedcution for a percentage paid to health insurance based on your income would have encouraged more folks to purchase it. And for those that do not want to purchase it, a no interest payment plan could have been mandated. These are just some of the things that were suggested and argued in congress and where pushed aside for the bill that was signed. These were things that our senators and congressmen pushed for and it came from we the people. Yet those people were ignored.

Instead, employers will start to cut back more and lay more people off. Mine is and we are healthcare. Smaller businesses will likely close altogether. Some companies will simply pay the fine rather than insure their employees. Families will likely not buy insurance until they need it because the fine is cheaper and the pre-existing clause will keep you from being denied coverage. If only we could get that for our cars. We could get in an accident and then get insurance. I had a friend that for the first 43 years of his life decided he did not need healthcare. He started having gallbladder problems and incestantly complained about the costs and ultimate cost of surgery. He spent nearly $20 on pre/post and surgical care. A good deal if you ask me since the insurance would have been over $200k during those first 20 years or so.

Sorry for the long a** rant but this whole thing smacks of socialism. And as Margaret Thatcher once said: "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money". I am real tired of others telling me what I am going to spend my money on.

Click to expand...
Ding Ding! We have a winner. Thank you for taking the time to say exactly what I was thinking, but really didn't have the time to express.

Just like Arnold using every dirty trick in the book to build his canal, the federal government is bent on giving us the health care system of a third world country along with the fiscal irresponsibility of Greece.

Not only will it be inefficient as is everything the government manages, the quality of health care will suffer as well. Since being a doctor will be a much less attractive career, fewer of our bright minds will become doctors. Instead, they'll become lawyers who will specialize in suing the government for malpractice.

So don't be surprised if your next physician ends up being someone who worked at the DMV and decided to become a doctor. Hope you all enjoy your colonoscopy.

Click to expand...
 
Wow Wayne. You are one angry young democrat. Is is obvious, like many topics you post on, that your mind is made up and no one is going to change it. I don't agree with you so I must be a Republican. I don't think I mentioned either party in my little rant up there.

The real winner is Obama, the Democratic party and all Americans. The losers are conservatives, Republicans and insurance companies who take money when your health, drop you when you become too costly. There is nothing in the bill to keep your insurance from dropping you. Only that they can not deny you coverage for pre-existing. What do you think you rate is going to be if you have a pre-existing? There is a reason all of the healthcare stocks are on the rise.

Government isnt the one providing healthcare. It still comes from insurance companies, medicine is still practiced by doctors.

They just added a few rules. Small businesses who lay people off for not being able to afford ever increasing healthcare coverage will now get help and support so they can continue to keep people on payroll. They did nothing of the sort. They created a mandate that says employers must provide healthcare. Something that wasn't there before. Companies have no choice but to give this additional benefit or pay a fine.

Look..this is democracy..the GOP did a horrible job so now their numbers in both houses of Congress are few..thats how it works..so now that they cant spend trillions figuring out which country to attack next they have to sit back and watch dems invest domestically. Your right, we probably should have just let terrorism fester in the middle east as Bill Clinton did. Maybe we would have had a few more 911 type attacks as a result but it would have save us billions. Right? Speaking of billions, didn't the deficit grow by something close to $700 billion during the Bush years with nearly half of it his last two years? The two years that the democrats controlled congress? How much has the deficit increased in the last 1.5 years? 1 Trillion? 2 Trillion? Bottom line is both parties spend. In the end I would rather spend my money on a guy with a gun to stand in front of me then give it to someone to sit on their arse and do nothing but insult me.

Both parties spend money. GOP spend money blowing people up..Dems spend money right here within the 50 states. See above

The fiscally responsible republican is a myth. They never have existed. They never balanced the budget, Republicans never lower the national debt so stop preaching that the GOP is the party of fiscal responsiblity. They cleary are not. The record is clear. I am not sure where you got this from. I don't think I or anyone else claimed that either party was fiscally responsible. However, I do want both parties to start being a little more responsible and stop taking my money and giving it to or using it for things I don't want it used for. If you feel that folks that don't have healthcare deserve that be my guest and find a family to give your money to. Just stop asking for mine.

As a side note: The Senate completed nine hours of uninterrupted voting on 29 GOP amendments to the legislation. Majority Democrats defeated every amendment

The legislation would change the new health care law by making drug benefits for Medicare recipients more generous by gradually closing a gap in coverage, increasing tax subsidies to help low-income people afford health care, and boosting federal Medicaid payments to states

By 57-42, Democrats rejected an amendment by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., barring federal purchases of Viagra and other erectile dysfunction drugs for sex offenders. Coburn said it would save millions of dollars

Democrats also deflected GOP amendments rolling back the health law's Medicare cuts; killing extra Medicaid funds for Tennessee and other state-specific spending; barring tax increases for families earning under $250,000; and requiring the president and other administration officials to purchase health care from exchanges the statute creates

This amendment would ensure that no provisions in the health bill increase the size of government bureaucracies in Washington, D.C.

This amendment would strike the creation of a new $375 million government program the new health bill (The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act) intended to promote personal and financial responsibility.

This amendment would ensure health care providers are not forced to participate in abortions or discriminated against because they choose not to perform abortions.

Taxing latex gloves and band-aids is not health reform and only increases the cost of health care for patients. This amendment would exempt all Class I medical devices – such as band-aids, wheelchairs, hospital beds, and surgical gowns – from new federal taxation

This amendment freezes the pay of Members of Congress until they balance the U.S. government’s budget.

Take those rose colored glasses off Wayne and look around you. There are a lot of things that need fixing in this country a lot worse than the semi broken health care system. If you don't have a job you can not buy healthcare either. Until they have the majority sucking on and dependent of the government teit they will not stop. It is time for change from are elected officials on both sides. This country has been in a downward slide of entitlement minded folks for entirely to long. It is time to make them get off their butts and go out and earn that welfare check, healthcare check, food stamps and unemployment check. There are plenty of things that need doing. And if I am going to give money to folks they need to be doing something for it.

Alright. Now I have spent way to much time on this B.S. this morning and am not getting my work done.
 
quote:
Originally posted by jmeirhofer

Look.. Speaking of billions, didn't the deficit grow by something close to $700 billion during the Bush years with nearly half of it his last two years? The two years that the democrats controlled congress? How much has the deficit increased in the last 1.5 years? 1 Trillion? 2 Trillion? Bottom line is both parties spend. In the end I would rather spend my money on a guy with a gun to stand in front of me then give it to someone to sit on their arse and do nothing but insult me.

Click to expand...


It seems to me that if Congress did not agree to Bush's request for more funding Congressional leaders were being threatened with not supporting our troops and putting them in harms way and let’s not forget that most everyone agrees we sure didn't want a power vacuum in Iraq! What else could they have done? Also let’s not forget, much of Bush’s spending in the war on terror was not part of the budget.
 
Im one angry Democrat and rightfully so. For 8 years I watched Bush take us from surplus to deficit. I watched him hand money to the rich and corporations as the middle class struggled. I watched him say he was responsible for security but not take responsibility for our security on 9/11. I watched him attack the wrong country and let Osama Bin Laden go. Im surprised there wasnt more outrage. I had to watch the Republican party reduce this country to shambles. I didnt lose my job but many friends did. They lost their homes too. Angry..hell yea. I have every right to have nothing but vitriol towards the Republican party for what they have done to this country. They ruined it. By the time Obama took over this country was on the brink of total and utter financial collapse. My job had become more difficult and stressful as an indirect result of GOP failed leadership, incompetence and corruption. So angry..yes..Obama channeled that anger into donations, phone banking and millions upon millions of votes. Now we have real change. Republicans are channelling anger and encouraging domestic terrorism and violence towards democratic leaders. I suppose I shouldnt be surprised. After all..its the Republican party.
quote:
[ushi]Originally posy jt ed by jmeirhe hofer[/i]8 rsned

Wow Wa yne. You are one angry young democrat. Is is obvious, like many topics you post on, that your mind is made up and no one is going to change it. I don't agree with you so I must be a Republican. I don't think I mentioned either party in my little rant up there.

The real winner is Obama, the Democratic party and all Americans. The losers are conservatives, Republicans and insurance companies who take money when your health, drop you when you become too costly. There is nothing in the bill to keep your insurance from dropping you. Only that they can not deny you coverage for pre-existing. What do you think you rate is going to be if you have a pre-existing? There is a reason all of the healthcare stocks are on the rise.

Government isnt the one providing healthcare. It still comes from insurance companies, medicine is still practiced by doctors.

They just added a few rules. Small businesses who lay people off for not being able to afford ever increasing healthcare coverage will now get help and support so they can continue to keep people on payroll. They did nothing of the sort. They created a mandate that says employers must provide healthcare. Something that wasn't there before. Companies have no choice but to give this additional benefit or pay a fine.

Look..this is democracy..the GOP did a horrible job so now their numbers in both houses of Congress are few..thats how it works..so now that they cant spend trillions figuring out which country to attack next they have to sit back and watch dems invest domestically. Your right, we probably should have just let terrorism fester in the middle east as Bill Clinton did. Maybe we would have had a few more 911 type attacks as a result but it would have save us billions. Right? Speaking of billions, didn't the deficit grow by something close to $700 billion during the Bush years with nearly half of it his last two years? The two years that the democrats controlled congress? How much has the deficit increased in the last 1.5 years? 1 Trillion? 2 Trillion? Bottom line is both parties spend. In the end I would rather spend my money on a guy with a gun to stand in front of me then give it to someone to sit on their arse and do nothing but insult me.

Both parties spend money. GOP spend money blowing people up..Dems spend money right here within the 50 states. See above

The fiscally responsible republican is a myth. They never have existed. They never balanced the budget, Republicans never lower the national debt so stop preaching that the GOP is the party of fiscal responsiblity. They cleary are not. The record is clear. I am not sure where you got this from. I don't think I or anyone else claimed that either party was fiscally responsible. However, I do want both parties to start being a little more responsible and stop taking my money and giving it to or using it for things I don't want it used for. If you feel that folks that don't have healthcare deserve that be my guest and find a family to give your money to. Just stop asking for mine.

As a side note: The Senate completed nine hours of uninterrupted voting on 29 GOP amendments to the legislation. Majority Democrats defeated every amendment

The legislation would change the new health care law by making drug benefits for Medicare recipients more generous by gradually closing a gap in coverage, increasing tax subsidies to help low-income people afford health care, and boosting federal Medicaid payments to states

By 57-42, Democrats rejected an amendment by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., barring federal purchases of Viagra and other erectile dysfunction drugs for sex offenders. Coburn said it would save millions of dollars

Democrats also deflected GOP amendments rolling back the health law's Medicare cuts; killing extra Medicaid funds for Tennessee and other state-specific spending; barring tax increases for families earning under $250,000; and requiring the president and other administration officials to purchase health care from exchanges the statute creates

This amendment would ensure that no provisions in the health bill increase the size of government bureaucracies in Washington, D.C.

This amendment would strike the creation of a new $375 million government program the new health bill (The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act) intended to promote personal and financial responsibility.

This amendment would ensure health care providers are not forced to participate in abortions or discriminated against because they choose not to perform abortions.

Taxing latex gloves and band-aids is not health reform and only increases the cost of health care for patients. This amendment would exempt all Class I medical devices – such as band-aids, wheelchairs, hospital beds, and surgical gowns – from new federal taxation

This amendment freezes the pay of Members of Congress until they balance the U.S. government’s budget.

Take those rose colored glasses off Wayne and look around you. There are a lot of things that need fixing in this country a lot worse than the semi broken health care system. If you don't have a job you can not buy healthcare either. Until they have the majority sucking on and dependent of the government teit they will not stop. It is time for change from are elected officials on both sides. This country has been in a downward slide of entitlement minded folks for entirely to long. It is time to make them get off their butts and go out and earn that welfare check, healthcare check, food stamps and unemployment check. There are plenty of things that need doing. And if I am going to give money to folks they need to be doing something for it.

Alright. Now I have spent way to much time on this B.S. this morning and am not getting my work done.
Click to expand...
 
Wayne, your job has become more stressful and difficult? ....... that is why they call it work.
 
So.... How about that Delta? Isn't that what we should be talking about? Coming full circle, if there really was a concession in this health care bill that would give the Central Valley more water, what are the details?
 
That would be great Flutterby but they are not paid members.

Wayne - You might want to do a bit of research on that budget surplus myth. While your at it take a look at how many terrorist attacks against americans happened in the 8 years prior to 911. And how many after. You should also take a look at who let Osama bin Laden go. And while we are at it, lets look at who changed the lending standards that allowed anyone with a pulse to get a home loan as well as who authored changes in the security commisions rules to roll up and sell in bulk those loans. Lastly, how do you know it is republicans that are making those threats. There are people that are every bit as pissed off as you are Wayne. Just for different reasons. 54% is not an overwhelming vote for that change. I could go on but you have your mind made up and it doesn't matter what anyone says to you you are going to believe what you believe.

On the origninal subject. I believe the reason they were saying he was a flip vote is that he was threatening to change his yes vote to a no vote unless he got the water deal included.
 
So how much additional water will they pump down south and when will they start pumping? Will Arnold be on hand to personally turn on the pumps?
 
quote:
Originally posted by UpperDecker

So how much additional water will they pump down south and when will they start pumping? Will Arnold be on hand to personally turn on the pumps?

Click to expand...

We can agree on one thing. Boating and delta water is what this should be about. Who is better GOP or Dem? No one will succeed at convincing the other. But boating..I love it. If I had more free time I'd do even more boating. I have to be honest.. Since I bought my boat 90% of my boating has been in the SF Bay..my depth sounder is shotty and Im always concerned about low depths in the delta.
 
Wayne, time to upgrade your depth finder and start exploring the Delta! It is much more interesting then the bay, IMHO.

Outside of the marked channels, most of the bay is skinnier then the Delta sloughs and rivers.
 
To that we can both agree on Wayne. Boating has become such an integral part of my life that within the next two years I hope to become a live aboard.
 
Wayne, for a boat your size there isn't too much to worry about. There are some shallow areas, yes. But if you look at the charts you'll find that most of the sloughs are very deep.

It's a whole different world from the bay and something you need to explore.
 
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