Marine Sanitation Hose To PVC...
- Thread starter rommer
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2002
- RO Number
- 10785
- Messages
- 215
Myself and friend just finished changing out two heads, adding a Purasan and changing out all the sanitation hose in a Carver. Our first cruiser and probably our last unless the owners have some really deep pockets. This is not our first rodeo on doing this stuff, but our first cruiser....3 long long days
I only wish the manufactuers would have to do something like this, then they might not use cable ties every 2' on everything...or have the heads flush using fresh waster, with no check valves ...just strait from the tank...
Not enough room in there to whip a wet cat and no way to use PVC...and I don't see how in the world the plugs can get changed or the oil level checked on the generator.....I am not sure if my aches and pains will ever go away
I only wish the manufactuers would have to do something like this, then they might not use cable ties every 2' on everything...or have the heads flush using fresh waster, with no check valves ...just strait from the tank...
Not enough room in there to whip a wet cat and no way to use PVC...and I don't see how in the world the plugs can get changed or the oil level checked on the generator.....I am not sure if my aches and pains will ever go away
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2001
- RO Number
- 3655
- Messages
- 1,800
Ah Danny, you're spoiled! You're used to working on those nice big hillbilly houseboats: floating condos with a full "basement" and plenty of access to everything, with plumb walls and square corners.
When it comes to working on a "real boat" that actually leaves the dock occasionally, you're just like the rest of us and go limping around in pain for the next couple of weeks afterwards. [:-jump][:-jump2][:-jump][:-jump2]
When it comes to working on a "real boat" that actually leaves the dock occasionally, you're just like the rest of us and go limping around in pain for the next couple of weeks afterwards. [:-jump][:-jump2][:-jump][:-jump2]
Project update: It's two years later and I was starting to get some smells back. Was concerned about a leak although vaccum was 100% fine. Visually inspected the system, all clamps and PVC pipe is perfect.
Then I remembered this photo:
See that 1" piece of sani hose for the macerator output? Had forgotten to change it. It's only 22" long. Grabbed a $7 piece of hose from the local marine store and WHAT a difference. Boat is completely odor free again. Simply amazing how much stink can come from even a small piece of the white hose. I had figured it's such a short run that is rarely used why change it. Big mistake.
Then I remembered this photo:
See that 1" piece of sani hose for the macerator output? Had forgotten to change it. It's only 22" long. Grabbed a $7 piece of hose from the local marine store and WHAT a difference. Boat is completely odor free again. Simply amazing how much stink can come from even a small piece of the white hose. I had figured it's such a short run that is rarely used why change it. Big mistake.
Nice belated job John. I actually can not use PVC on my boat not a single run is over 36". No climbing around under the bilge. The only long run is about 6' of 1.5" Sanihose from the Y valve to the deck pumpout fitting. That follows the shape of the hull it's a large sweeping 90 degree bend. It's been 5 seasons and no odors on mine. I did recently have to change 2 1" short pieces of Sanihose but that was because I was moving stuff around. However if I ever change boats and have a dual head system or one with long runs schedule 40 PVC is what I would use with Fernco's in as much of the installation as possible. My boat had the original 1993 holding tank, hoses and rawwater head complete with a leaking holding tank. Can you say yuk and smell? The previous owner left me a full tank of crap to boot?
I find if you periodically treat your system with CP and use Odorless everytime you have the tank emptied there isn't anything to really smell bad.
Bill
I find if you periodically treat your system with CP and use Odorless everytime you have the tank emptied there isn't anything to really smell bad.
Bill
Yes, I saw that 22" flex line!
Late last night I finished my installation of a new Raritan Elegance. I already replumbed the entire boat with 1 1/2" PVC for the same reasons others take on that task. But last night I installed a 24" length of 1" hose from the toilet to the bilge area where it terminated in PVC.
But ....and damn, I hate that word........the Elegance is not like other heads I have installed over the years. There is no way to get at the discharge line at the head without removing the the toilet so there is no way that I can think of to use PVC right up to the toilet.
If that line stinks after a couple of years and most likely it will, I will just have to replace it. One thing I have going for me is this head is a fresh water flush. And PVC pipe is the only correct way to pipe discharge lines! One has to wonder why OEMs failed to recognize this many years ago when they designed the original plumbing systems.
Foggy
Late last night I finished my installation of a new Raritan Elegance. I already replumbed the entire boat with 1 1/2" PVC for the same reasons others take on that task. But last night I installed a 24" length of 1" hose from the toilet to the bilge area where it terminated in PVC.
But ....and damn, I hate that word........the Elegance is not like other heads I have installed over the years. There is no way to get at the discharge line at the head without removing the the toilet so there is no way that I can think of to use PVC right up to the toilet.
If that line stinks after a couple of years and most likely it will, I will just have to replace it. One thing I have going for me is this head is a fresh water flush. And PVC pipe is the only correct way to pipe discharge lines! One has to wonder why OEMs failed to recognize this many years ago when they designed the original plumbing systems.
Foggy
It may be the best way, but in many cases, it's just not practical, especially on smaller boats. I replaced the hoses on mine with hose, but in retrospect, I don't believe I could replace even 1/2 of the waste lines with rigid pipe. And of course, rigid pipe has to be well supported, especially where it connects to a fixed object like the tank or head. Rigid pipe connected to a macerator pump will transmit noise and vibration.
There are reasons for using hose.
I'm not understand why you couldn't get close to the ME and use just a very small flex to rigid adapter Foggy? My ME has about 10" between it and the wall in the head. I can get to and work on the back of the head with no problems, the discharge on mine is about 8" up the rear of the head. Perhaps they have changed the design since I got mine.
Bill
Bill
Billy, I don't understand your installation.Are you saying that the ME just sits in the middle of the floor. I believe that most of the rest of us install the head against a bulkhead. That means to get access we have to unbolt it & then pull the ME back enough to undo the hose clamps. If like me, you made the mistake of getting the standard height instead of the tallboy, it can be a pain.
Al
Al
Bill--
I had the ME completely installed and then grabbed the toilet seat to install it next.. WRONG! I had to remove the base screws and lift the toilet away from the wall with all the hoses & wiring in place in order to secure the seat.
Now as far as running pipe itself from the toilet, looking back I guess I could have used a small piece of hose to connect pipe to the discharge connection, dropped the toilet into place along with the pipe secured to it AND THEN connect another short piece of hose from the pipe from the toilet to the main pipe going to the holding tank. That would have minimized the inches of hoses needed but it certainly would have made the connections difficult.
Now if my plumbing skills were in the superior category, and I connected the pipe from the head directly to the pipe going to the holding tank, that also would have worked. BUT.......again that word.....if I ever needed to remove the toilet for any reason, that pipe connection between the toilet and the holding tank run would need to be cut. Pipe to pipe prevents lifting the toilet.
So the best configuration I thought was just use a short length of hose attached directly to the ME, pass it through the floor where I could connect it to the main discharge run. I still cannot lift the toilet very much (I was able to move it just enough to get the seat installed) without cutting the hose and when that happens I will replace it.
Foggy
I had the ME completely installed and then grabbed the toilet seat to install it next.. WRONG! I had to remove the base screws and lift the toilet away from the wall with all the hoses & wiring in place in order to secure the seat.
Now as far as running pipe itself from the toilet, looking back I guess I could have used a small piece of hose to connect pipe to the discharge connection, dropped the toilet into place along with the pipe secured to it AND THEN connect another short piece of hose from the pipe from the toilet to the main pipe going to the holding tank. That would have minimized the inches of hoses needed but it certainly would have made the connections difficult.
Now if my plumbing skills were in the superior category, and I connected the pipe from the head directly to the pipe going to the holding tank, that also would have worked. BUT.......again that word.....if I ever needed to remove the toilet for any reason, that pipe connection between the toilet and the holding tank run would need to be cut. Pipe to pipe prevents lifting the toilet.
So the best configuration I thought was just use a short length of hose attached directly to the ME, pass it through the floor where I could connect it to the main discharge run. I still cannot lift the toilet very much (I was able to move it just enough to get the seat installed) without cutting the hose and when that happens I will replace it.
Foggy
I will try and find or take and post a picture mine sits inside a raised fiberglass curved liner. I have at least 6 inches between the rear inner workings and the curved wall. In my boat the entire head and stall shower are a drop in fiberglass liner. My hoses look like Mixmans picture and exit the rear side of the head enter a large open cabinet/swing door where most of the plumbing and electrical is located and hidden. There is a shelf made of Corian that sits in behind the head and wraps around to the sink. From the Corian counter up is a set of 4 cabinet doors. Then a large dark plexiglass half wall from the one piece vanity seperates the head to the left, sink (center) from the shower stall to the right.
I hope this helps. I can remove my seat without doing anything but opening the lid, reaching behind the unit to hold the plastic/poly nuts, removing the 2 plastic hold down caps and unscrewing the studs.
Bill
I hope this helps. I can remove my seat without doing anything but opening the lid, reaching behind the unit to hold the plastic/poly nuts, removing the 2 plastic hold down caps and unscrewing the studs.
Bill
On the opposite side of the wall where my ME is against is my fridge. Other than cutting a hole in the wall, there is no access at the rear of the toilet and remember I have the straight ceramic back toilet that rests against that wall. You may well have a better access than I. There are many things Silverton could have done better although we are generally happy with the boat.
Foggy
Foggy
I was thinking you could have plumbed in the PVC then used a Fernco adapter on the heads discharge fitting.
Our boats are similar I have a Mainship sedan bridge which was made from the same factory but obviously has a different layout. My frig is in the salon on the opposite or port side of the boat from the head which is further forward down 1 step and on the starboard side.
Bill
Our boats are similar I have a Mainship sedan bridge which was made from the same factory but obviously has a different layout. My frig is in the salon on the opposite or port side of the boat from the head which is further forward down 1 step and on the starboard side.
Bill
Just looked at this thread for the first time. A couple of comments.
First, I'm a little surprised at the need for the project to begin with. Permeation shouldn't be an issue with a fresh water Vacu Flush head. Is this a salt water application? perhaps there were some sags in the hose or it was just cheap hose. But I notice that the last section to go was a piece of Shields XHD. My three head system uses the high end Sealand Odor Safe hose, but there is a short section of the same Shields on one leg of one system. Even after having been installed incorrectly by the PO for a couple of years, that section and none of the others have any signs of permeation after almost 7 years. No granted, they have been used virtually full time for the 5 years we have lived aboard, so I just chalked it up to the fact that fresh water was rinsing them out every time. A lot of people treat these heads like airplane heads and don't hold the lever down a couple of seconds for liquids and five or so for loads to send fresh water in behind the waste.
Second, don't know if you have got back to it yet, but I too strongly suggest supporting that pipe wherever you can especially at junctions and long runs. A transient boat next to us in for the Big Rock marlin tournament, a very high end custom Spencer sportfisher, had their PVC fresh water system break near the manifold due to a line not being properly supported. It had all seemed nice and rigid until...
First, I'm a little surprised at the need for the project to begin with. Permeation shouldn't be an issue with a fresh water Vacu Flush head. Is this a salt water application? perhaps there were some sags in the hose or it was just cheap hose. But I notice that the last section to go was a piece of Shields XHD. My three head system uses the high end Sealand Odor Safe hose, but there is a short section of the same Shields on one leg of one system. Even after having been installed incorrectly by the PO for a couple of years, that section and none of the others have any signs of permeation after almost 7 years. No granted, they have been used virtually full time for the 5 years we have lived aboard, so I just chalked it up to the fact that fresh water was rinsing them out every time. A lot of people treat these heads like airplane heads and don't hold the lever down a couple of seconds for liquids and five or so for loads to send fresh water in behind the waste.
Second, don't know if you have got back to it yet, but I too strongly suggest supporting that pipe wherever you can especially at junctions and long runs. A transient boat next to us in for the Big Rock marlin tournament, a very high end custom Spencer sportfisher, had their PVC fresh water system break near the manifold due to a line not being properly supported. It had all seemed nice and rigid until...
That would have worked Bill.Must admit that my ingenuity was crippled after fighting so many things to get the installation completed. In any case, the present arrangement will last for some years before I have a problem.
Foggy
Sometimes you have to leave well enogh alone. Last year when I had to change my waste transfer pump from the holding tank to the Purasan I thought this is only going to take an hour. 5 hours later with cuts, bruises and sweating perfusely it was done. I am sick of the Jabsco waste pumps even though WM gave me a 5 year unlimited return policy I have had to replace the run dry pump yearly. I bought a new Sealand transfer pump. So the Sealand pump sits waiting for the dreaded swap probably sometime towards the end of the summer. In other words I get your point!
Bill
Bill
Foggy, here is the idiot in me, I had a SeaLand waste pump installed with the VacuFlush. When I got the ME head I also bought a Hold N Treat system. Not thinking I removed the year old pump and threw it out! So 5 seasons later I purchased another SeaLand pump ($$$) and am waiting for my Jabsco pump to die.
Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Bill
Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Bill
Bill-- I am not going to give you a volt of confidence in you statement "here is the *********" :~)
But---- and that word again------does your wife know? ,OK we all do some dumb things. I would make the change over NOW! Later, the Jabsco will fail and it will fail at an unfavorable time. And if you're like me, you won't remember where the heck the Sealand is resting. Treatment systems! No way in hell will I install a treatment system when government still demands no discharge. If the there was relaxation to the crazy no discharge rules, I would spend the big bucks and do it right. But that is a different topic, one that we could spend months discussing to no avail.
Foggy
But---- and that word again------does your wife know? ,OK we all do some dumb things. I would make the change over NOW! Later, the Jabsco will fail and it will fail at an unfavorable time. And if you're like me, you won't remember where the heck the Sealand is resting. Treatment systems! No way in hell will I install a treatment system when government still demands no discharge. If the there was relaxation to the crazy no discharge rules, I would spend the big bucks and do it right. But that is a different topic, one that we could spend months discussing to no avail.
Foggy