Minor dock / pole work regulations?

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Radiowaves

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Does anyone here know the general regulations for replacing an existing pole or reseating a pole that was uplifted?, specifically in Babylon Village. From the information I had in the past was that any new marina work or major repairs need special permits from the Town, DEC and possibly the Army Core of Engineers. But to do a very minor job like a pole reseat or replacement would only require the dock builder to have various permits of his own.

If permits were needed for such a simple job would mean that any marina or waterfront home with a slip would need permits if they were to replace a simple pole. This just does not seem correct. It is not new construction.

We just had a job put on hold by the village because neighbors complained that they saw a barge and crane at our club. We were just going to replace 2 or 3 poles and reseat a couple more.

Any information would be appreciated.
 
Not sure of the specifics of your town code, but in the town of hempstead that is how it is supposed to work. Ofcourse what is enforced is always something else.

here is a link for the town -----http://www.toh.li/content/bz/sinwater.html
 
I am sure it is similar in most towns about permits, but this seems a bit overkill. The dock builder has not run into an issue like this before relating to such a simple job. 2 or 3 of the poles are just leaning a bit and the slip owner would like them to be reseated. 4 other poles are very old and a bit skinny and should be replaced. We are not putting in anything new. I am waiting for the results of our club management who have gone this morning to the mayor’s office for clarification.
 
You should find a copy of your orginal permit when the marina was constructed. I'm pretty sure ours states that we are allowed to do routine maintenance to upkeep the marina but we are not allowed to expand.

I tried looking on NYS DEP site but found nothing. I'm curious as to what happens here. Many marinas pull their own poles and docks at the end of the season (metal pipe). Hopefully you won't have a hard time finding someone in town hall who's willing to take a stand and say don't worry, you're good to go.
 
I think chris is correct, call joelle at the Anchorage and ask her for the phone # of the dock builder they use, his name is Jed. He will know all the laws. The Anchorage had to re-set quite a few poles over the years and jed is the guy that does it.

Walter
 
I just had a guy out to my house to survey for a boat lift and tell me what permits I'd need. WOW!! Have to get permits from everywhere for everything. He said they last ten years and take about 4 - 5 months to get so they are good to have. He did tell me that if I did anything without them and was caught the DEC charges a $10K fine and 10K every day afer that until it's resolved. With that in mind, check your permits.
 
I was thinking of doing a bulk head re-face this fall......would you need permits for that too ?
 
According to this guy I called who happened to work for the DEC for forty years, anything on or about the water requires a permit. New bulkhead, reface, lift, floating dock, davits even the deck above the bulkhead. He charges 2K to get all of the permits filed and includes everything so for ten years you can make all the changes you want without having to refile as long as you follow what is on the permits, i.e. 10K pound boatlift you put in a 10k boatlift not 20. Permits take 4 months.
 
Every village and town has their own interpretation of codes so I'm not so sure about Babylon, but the DEC says that replacing a existing pole or jetting one down does not need a permit. Also refacing an existing functional bulkhead (no step out)does not need a permit. Functioning means no holes with water behind the bulkhead. Go to the DEC website www.dec.state.ny.us/ and download 6 NYCRR part 661 tidal wetlands - land use regulations and look at rule 21, ordinary maintenance and repair.

As far as permits, I use a guy named Joe Enrico for all my permit work with the towns and the DEC. I am fully capable of doing it myself, but over the years I have found out that the money spent on him has been the best thing I have ever done. Permits come very quickly and he does all the work. The price is too cheap, but do not tell him I said so.
Joe Enrico, Ocean Consulting 516 764-8534

I know the LIYC very well, having grown up on the canal just to the north. What you guys need from the DEC will take some work, but it is possible for you to get what is called a letter of non-jurisdiction, that is the DEC stating that the facility has existed in its current form since before the DEC was formed. With this letter the DEC has no imput on anything you do landward of the bulkhead. You still have to get permits for anything having to do with the marina, but any building or grading you do will be out of their jurisdiction.
 
Thanks for the information. This issue is taking a life of its own. There are so many interpretations of what we should do at the LIYC. Our new Commodore is new at this and she is doing her best to sort the problem out. As Rear Commodore, I would like to help more, but with my new job, I just can’t get as involved. We have a 7 or 10 year permit that will expire in May; it covered some new decking a few years back, so we should be covered now. However who ever the commodore spoke with said it may not. So she now has appointment with the DEC, I believe on Wednesday.

Meanwhile we have members concerned including me who need some pole work ASAP. I switched slips this year and am not happy with two of my poles. One is very old and skinny and the other is leaning back and is a bit wobbly. We were told that we can re-set a pole without a permit but replacing one in the same hole requires a permit. But now the dock builder, who is a friend and a past member, has a crane and barge sitting in our basin. He insists that our permits are good, but since our neighbor’s called the Mayor, he won’t continue until we sort this whole thing out. Now the two complaining neighbors have an eye sore, which would have been gone by today or tomorrow. So the barge sits waiting until at least next week. Then it has to go to another job and we will not have our work done.
 
Why is it.... that the neighbors with glass houses always throw rocks ?
 
I will 2nd Joe Enrico for permits, he filed for my neighbor and I 6 years ago when we replaced our bulkhead. Price was resonable from what I remember.
 
This is the frustrating part of dealing with permits...Now you're caught chasing your tail. The worker doesn't want to proceed without the Mayor's approval. The village/town is not sure what their jurisdiction is and what's worse, nobody is willing to review the paperwork and "make the call". All finger pointing, no action. I bet the neighbors are sorry they made the call. Can you ask them to rescind their complaint...or is the cat too far out of the bag?

I want to dump rocks in the river...we have a bulkhead that is failing and rather than replacing, I'd like to simply dump rocks in the water to shore it up. I'm literally afraid to start the permit process. But, if the wall completely fails, we'll lose our deck and possibly clubhouse.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Double D

Why is it.... that the neighbors with glass houses always throw rocks ?

Click to expand...
Don, you have been to our club, so if you recall we have neighbors to the north and south, with a fence and plenty of trees bushes as a divider. But these two neighbors are more towards the south east and have a bulkhead along our signet dock which is like a long finger with water on both sides. Small boats will dock there short term. The LIYC owns the land and water along their side of the signet dock, which is about ten feet wide by maybe 200 or so feet. Both neighbors had begun to use that area and one put a jet ski platform and the other put cleats along his bulkhead and begun docking a 2nd boat there. Both are blocking any possible usage for the LIYC.

The club really had no problem with that as we don’t use that side of the dock often, but the club wanted to make it clear that they are borrowing our property and wanted to have a written agreement to avoid any future questions of right of ownership. Well that’s when things got messy. Without going in to real detail, we are allowing them to borrow our space, but they feel it is their right. It’s a grey area, but could move for actions. We chose not to pursue it further and allow them to continue to use that space.

The thanks we got is f-en up our spring dock work. The question is who is Hatfield and who is McCoy?
 
quote:
Originally posted by WALSHIE

I bet the neighbors are sorry they made the call. Can you ask them to rescind their complaint...or is the cat too far out of the bag?
Click to expand...
I did speak with one of them and explained what we were doing, it seemed to calm him and his wife down since we were not adding any new slips, but they still made the call. Since this now is at the town level, we must go through the process.
 
Brad.....Maybe the club should " use " his driveway to park cars next time you have a club function......:) :)
 
Update, as per the DEC our permits are valid for the work we need to do. But will need to be renewed in a few of months. Our neighbors have not been told yet that we are good to go. But they have again complained to the mayor about the barge and crane in our basin and they want it gone immediately…… yaa right. The dock builder is on another job for the next day or so. It took 3 hours to move it from somewhere west from another job to the LIYC. It’s on our property and besides, residents along the water have this kind of work done all the time and a crane could sit for a week. I understand it may not be pretty looking out the back window, but man these people need to get a life. The workman would have been gone by now if they did not file complaints.
 
HAHA, serves them right! Why do the neighbors have to be told? Do the work now before the permits expire.
 
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