Need to purchase a new toilet
- Thread starter foggysail
- Start date
I'm also looking to replace our head - a Jabsco manual toilet 1995 vintage. You had me talked into the Marine Elegance, but it won't fit in our new-to-us Albin 28TE. 
So I'm looking at the following Raritan units:
PHC - manual toilet. Big advantage: no need to run wiring.
PHII - manual. Not sure this one will fit.
SeaEra - electric macerating toilet
Would welcome your input.
So I'm looking at the following Raritan units:PHC - manual toilet. Big advantage: no need to run wiring.
PHII - manual. Not sure this one will fit.
SeaEra - electric macerating toilet
Would welcome your input.
I just recently installed a fresh water Sea Era for forward head and a fresh water Marine Elegance for aft head on my 41 Hatteras. The Sea Era is great. It works flawlessly. The Marine Elegance is disappointing. The flush action is very weak as compared to the Sea Era. Save the $ and go with the Sea Era!
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2002
- RO Number
- 10785
- Messages
- 215
Eric, why is the ME disapointing to you? I am curious to know
Eric somethng is wrong compared to my VacuFlush the Raritan ME blew it away on flushing power.
Are you sure you don't have a kink or loose connection in the output hose? Since you have a Hatt do you have the correct voltage to the ME?
Bill
Are you sure you don't have a kink or loose connection in the output hose? Since you have a Hatt do you have the correct voltage to the ME?
Bill
quote:
Originally posted by Nancy
I'm also looking to replace our head - a Jabsco manual toilet 1995 vintage. You had me talked into the Marine Elegance, but it won't fit in our new-to-us Albin 28TE.
PHC - manual toilet. Big advantage: no need to run wiring.
PHII - manual. Not sure this one will fit.
SeaEra - electric macerating toilet
Would welcome your input.
Nancy why won't it fit the Albin 28 is it the full sized bowl and seat?
Bill
Here's the whole story to date: I own a 1966 Hatteras 41 Twin Cabin. This model was built with no holding tank. Since there is no good location to retrofit a holding tank, the choice of a previous owner was to add Raritan LectraSan (Type I) treatment units to both of the existing Raritan Crown raw water flush toilets. The forward LectraSan was located in the forward stateroom hanging locker and the aft head LectraSan was mounted right next to the toilet on the floor. Needless to say, this particular installation was horribly ugly. In addition, the LectraSans don’t really work very well on the upper Chesapeake as the “brackish” water is mostly fresh. It has been my experience that getting the salt feed just right is almost impossible. The net result is a treatment device that doesn’t work and a terrible head smell that gets worse during the boating season as the Bay water temp increases.
This Winter I decided to re-do both heads to include new toilets and treatment systems. I wanted to install fresh water flush heads, and Raritan PuraSan treatment units which operate on fresh water that adds chlorine to the unit from a feed tank for treatment. I had this setup on my last boat along with a Raritan Sea Era fresh water flush head, both of which worked well and were trouble-free. So for the forward guest head, this is the setup that I had professionally installed. Both components went back in the same location as was existing. It works flawlessly. There’s plenty of fresh water coming in and I would describe the discharge as very aggressive.
The aft head installation was more complicated. There is no space near the aft toilet to locate the PuraSan. Clearly, the previous spot on the floor next to the head was unacceptable. On the other side of the wall forward from the aft head is the starboard aft area of the engine room. This area is consumed by main engine and genset exhaust, and raw water intake plumbing. Most of the nearby available space in the engine room is needed for access to the aforementioned stuff. The best, reasonable location for the PuraSan was up about 3 feet to the level of the salon floor, to starboard outboard of the salon wall panel. This means that the aft toilet would need to be capable of discharging “up” about 4 feet in total. This is 3 feet up, plus another 1 foot for the required vented loop.
I spent some time researching which head could pump “up”. Raritan claims that their Marine Elegance model is capable of discharging 10 feet vertically and 100 feet horizontally. It also claims to “create vacuum in the bowl” according to their promo sheet. This head is nice looking and has a household style porcelain bowl which looks much better than the lower priced Sea Era that has hoses visible. So I decided to treat myself to the nicer, pricier head for the master since its specs suggest that it will function as this particular installation would require.
The Raritan Marine Elegance was professionally installed in my aft head per Raritan’s instructions, just like the Sea Era set-up in the forward head. My boat’s fresh water system is plumbed with 3/8” copper tubing and Raritan calls for a ½” fresh water feed to the Marine Elegance. The problem is not with the fresh water coming into the toilet but rather that the flushing action of the Marine Elegance is very weak. In fact it totally clogged at the very first use. After bailing it out, I was able to get it flushing again but it’s flush discharge is nowhere near as good as the lesser expensive Sea Era, which is connected to the same size fresh water line-in. The Marine Elegance seems to get air bound during flushing. Just like the old technology Crown head, if you push the button to flush then pause, the Elegance “burps” a few big bubbles of air. Then if you flush again it will evacuate the bowl. If there is anything in the bowl that prevents the “burp” from occurring, then the head gets totally air-bound and will not flush. This is what happened when I first used it. Raritan claims that thousands of these Marine Elegance head are in use and have been “trouble free”. Raritan also states that the inner works of the Marine Elegance is based on the same mechanism as the Sea Era. In comparing the flushing action of the Sea Era and the Marine Elegance on my own boat, I can clearly state that the Marine Elegance is “anemic” as compared to the Era Era. At Raritan’s suggestion, we did increase the size of the fresh water feed to the Marine Elegance. This did increase the volume of water coming in, but the weak flush action essentially remains the same.
I’m curious to know if anyone else is unhappy with the performance of their Raritan Marine Elegance toilet?
This Winter I decided to re-do both heads to include new toilets and treatment systems. I wanted to install fresh water flush heads, and Raritan PuraSan treatment units which operate on fresh water that adds chlorine to the unit from a feed tank for treatment. I had this setup on my last boat along with a Raritan Sea Era fresh water flush head, both of which worked well and were trouble-free. So for the forward guest head, this is the setup that I had professionally installed. Both components went back in the same location as was existing. It works flawlessly. There’s plenty of fresh water coming in and I would describe the discharge as very aggressive.
The aft head installation was more complicated. There is no space near the aft toilet to locate the PuraSan. Clearly, the previous spot on the floor next to the head was unacceptable. On the other side of the wall forward from the aft head is the starboard aft area of the engine room. This area is consumed by main engine and genset exhaust, and raw water intake plumbing. Most of the nearby available space in the engine room is needed for access to the aforementioned stuff. The best, reasonable location for the PuraSan was up about 3 feet to the level of the salon floor, to starboard outboard of the salon wall panel. This means that the aft toilet would need to be capable of discharging “up” about 4 feet in total. This is 3 feet up, plus another 1 foot for the required vented loop.
I spent some time researching which head could pump “up”. Raritan claims that their Marine Elegance model is capable of discharging 10 feet vertically and 100 feet horizontally. It also claims to “create vacuum in the bowl” according to their promo sheet. This head is nice looking and has a household style porcelain bowl which looks much better than the lower priced Sea Era that has hoses visible. So I decided to treat myself to the nicer, pricier head for the master since its specs suggest that it will function as this particular installation would require.
The Raritan Marine Elegance was professionally installed in my aft head per Raritan’s instructions, just like the Sea Era set-up in the forward head. My boat’s fresh water system is plumbed with 3/8” copper tubing and Raritan calls for a ½” fresh water feed to the Marine Elegance. The problem is not with the fresh water coming into the toilet but rather that the flushing action of the Marine Elegance is very weak. In fact it totally clogged at the very first use. After bailing it out, I was able to get it flushing again but it’s flush discharge is nowhere near as good as the lesser expensive Sea Era, which is connected to the same size fresh water line-in. The Marine Elegance seems to get air bound during flushing. Just like the old technology Crown head, if you push the button to flush then pause, the Elegance “burps” a few big bubbles of air. Then if you flush again it will evacuate the bowl. If there is anything in the bowl that prevents the “burp” from occurring, then the head gets totally air-bound and will not flush. This is what happened when I first used it. Raritan claims that thousands of these Marine Elegance head are in use and have been “trouble free”. Raritan also states that the inner works of the Marine Elegance is based on the same mechanism as the Sea Era. In comparing the flushing action of the Sea Era and the Marine Elegance on my own boat, I can clearly state that the Marine Elegance is “anemic” as compared to the Era Era. At Raritan’s suggestion, we did increase the size of the fresh water feed to the Marine Elegance. This did increase the volume of water coming in, but the weak flush action essentially remains the same.
I’m curious to know if anyone else is unhappy with the performance of their Raritan Marine Elegance toilet?
It clogged totally on the first use. It seems to get air bound. Raritan is working with me to try to figure this out. So that their guys could see what I'm talking about, I made some videos that I posted on Youtube that show the difference between the Sea Ear flush and the Marine Elegance flush action. I initially made these videos "private" but then the Raritan guys couldn't access them, so I have now made them "public". Hopefully we can figure out whats going on with this Marine Elegance head. I really want it to work. Raritan tells me that they want me to be happy, so we shall see how it evolves. If you want to see the videos, just Google "Raritan Marine Elegance flush test" and the Youtube videos pop right up.
One quick question when you flush the ME does the output rubber hose behind the head that connects to the discharge hose collapse? How many 90 degree fittings are in the discharge line? Each one subtracts 4' off the specifications.
Here is the installation manual.
http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/Marine Elegance/L460v0210.pdf
Bill
Here is the installation manual.
http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/Marine Elegance/L460v0210.pdf
Bill
There is a vented loop between the head and the PuraSan per Raritan's instruction. To my knowledge there are no 90's in the discharge line at all except perhaps where it enters the PuraSan. All of this was professionally installed by a very experienced mechanic that is very experienced with Raritan products in particular.
I can't find the link to the U-Tube video. In your 2 seperate installations I also don't think it's a fair comparison. It does sound like your problem is restrictive discharge pressure, don't overlook low voltage as well. Also don't overlook the PuraSan I have had mine air lock because it is higher then the waterline and discharges below the waterline. The symptom was the transfer pumps breaker would fail or the pump would lock up. I resolved this issue but my Purasan is a Hold-N-Treat using my existing holding tank. The head (ME) dumps into the tank and when I am in an area that is ok to discharge waste I use the H-N-T PuraSan to treat the holding tank's waste.
A quick test to see if it is pressure in the Purasan is to loosen the mixer cap until it allows airflow and if there is something wrong you will hear a hissing sound and smell the waste.
Bill
A quick test to see if it is pressure in the Purasan is to loosen the mixer cap until it allows airflow and if there is something wrong you will hear a hissing sound and smell the waste.
Bill
The air burp bothers me Kurt it seems like there is a restriction in the discharge installation. But I agree I would not overlook voltage and current sag especially if the ME and PuraSan are powered off the same power feed.
Bill
Bill
We have checked voltage per instruction from Raritan tech. That was fine.
Here are the youtube links: First the sea Era, then the Marine Elegance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPBFrMJfccw&list=UUZgzSynquN56655VSjOkMBQ&index=2&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUP4G4xUots&list=UUZgzSynquN56655VSjOkMBQ&index=3&feature=plcp
Here are the youtube links: First the sea Era, then the Marine Elegance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPBFrMJfccw&list=UUZgzSynquN56655VSjOkMBQ&index=2&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUP4G4xUots&list=UUZgzSynquN56655VSjOkMBQ&index=3&feature=plcp
After watching the videos you definately have a restriction be it back pressure or air in the plumbing to the ME unit.
Mine works and sounds nothing like your unit. I can see it has problems.
Vic may not comment on this because he no longer works for Raritan.
Let me suggest a simple test can you install the hose into a bucket instead of the PuraSan and repeat the test?
Bill
Mine works and sounds nothing like your unit. I can see it has problems.
Vic may not comment on this because he no longer works for Raritan.
Let me suggest a simple test can you install the hose into a bucket instead of the PuraSan and repeat the test?
Bill
The bucket test could have up to 3 results, nothing changes, if nothing changes then I would break it after the siphon loop and put the bucket there, if it works then you probably have the air lock problem I described with my PuraSan. My PuraSan was backfeeding due to the height and I had to install a 1 way check valve to keep it from gravity feeding and eventually airlocking.
Bill
Bill